Please remember! These
are archives! The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is
published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice
setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.
Topic: Barring Precision Shooters
Date: 8/15/2001 4:48:41 PM (Pacific USA)
How long before casinos begin barring craps players who are
perceived to have and advantage over the house ?
Are we in the beginning stages of what blackjack went through after Beat The Dealer came
I am curious as to anyone's thoughts on this topic. And how many truly good precision
shooters are out there and do they indeed pose a financial threat to the casinos ?
Date: 8/16/2001 9:58:12 AM (Pacific USA)
Slogan: Beginners Opinion
I think it will be long time, if ever, that casinos will start
barring precision shooters. I believe that there are very, very few true actual precision
shooters(Im not one of them).
Im being reading all the dice setting boards and information I can over the last six
weeks. I just finished a practice table a few days ago. Ive thrown a set of 540
throws with the flying V set. Probably more dice thrown then at all the casino craps
tables Ive ever played. My median throw for these tosses is 9 (9 throws till 7 out).
My throw of sevens is 1.2 percentage (I threw 15.5% sevens in the 540 throws).
This I can chalk up to standard deviation. So based on my beginner opinion:
It took me all of one week to learn basic strategy and card counting.
Blackjack players have only the dealers cards to beat.
When the count is high, the player KNOWS he has an advantage.
There are many professional blackjack players.
Precision Shooting in craps:
I believe it will take several MONTHS of practice for be to be comfortable with certain
dice sets, and I have to have at least two, one for comeouts and one for points. Most
people will not put this amount of time into it.
Craps players seldom play alone. Other people roll the dice at the table. Sure, you
dont have to bet on them, but what fun is that?
I dont know what the next roll we be, Im only trying to find a set that rolls
more of certain numbers then the others. I could still seven-out at any time. I know I
have a long term advantage.. but will today be a good or bad roll day?
From what I have read, even I precision shooter cannot choose the number they are going to
throw, only a range of numbers. Because of this, the rolls look like a sampling of random
number from a long term set.
I believe there are very few true precision shooters and even less professional craps
Blackjack Verses Craps:
When playing blackjack, if the count suddenly goes high, a player may change from a ten
dollar bet to a sixty-dollar bet. It not that hard to figure out what is going on, hence
all the books on camouflaging card counting.
When playing craps, the bets are played as the roll progresses. I hot shooter will get
more action on the table on certain numbers. From what I read, the precision shooter
follows every shooter to determine trends and bets accordingly; therefore, their bet is
not increasing/decreasing wildly.
When playing craps, almost everyone bets heavier on themselves then the other shooters, I
think its almost excepted.
Hiding precision shooting is not that hard, about half the people set the dice at any
given table anyway. Just because they set the dice does not mean they are a precision
shooter. Ive seen people take eons to set the dice, then wing them at the back wall
at Mach 5 so the dice bounce like superballs. I dont think that is precision
Blackjack is easy to learn and easy to play. Craps takes some time to learn and much more
time in investigating betting strategies and even more time learning/practicing set
Most people playing blackjack can bet easily (There are only a few bets). Ive seen
some craps players make completely crazy bets, especially high rollers (Press my $100
.) I believe that most true precision shooters are not of the high roller
type and play to make a profit, by changing bets as the roll progresses. I havent
seen a high roller (My definition: Bets equal to or greater then $100 per bet) who could
precision shoot yet. I believe precision shooter bet on their best bets for their rolls
and make money slowly over a session, they are not looking for that big hit on
one roll of the dice.
On the Casinos
Unless craps play starts to produce lower then excepted take in the casino,
the casino is not going to bar setters. I dont think this will happen for a long
time either, as there are to many beginner players and too many high rollers dropping tons
on money on high vig bets.
I few precision shooters taking $250-$1000 a day on a table is not going to affect to
casinos take by that much. Sometimes even random shooters win that much
on a hot roll.
I suppose if a group of precision shooter got together and played the same casino for a
week, the casino would start to catch on. I dont think this will happen. Precision
shooters are a smart group, learning dice sets, betting methods, and practicing. I would
hope they would move around from casino to casino taking a little here, a little there, so
as not to ruin it for themselves and the rest of us, when we get more practice inJ.
Some casinos have barred setting dice, but there are ways around this, in one of Mad
Professors articles on this site, he explains a simple toking method to get the dice
back to you with the numbers you want up.
Just my thoughts and options,
Date: 8/16/2001 12:44:57 PM (Pacific USA)
Very well written.
Date: 8/18/2001 10:33:22 AM (Pacific USA)
Based on my observation at LOTS of casinos, it does not appear
that there are many true precision players.
I may have seen one or so, but it's extremely rare. I do, however, see LOTS of setters who
fiddle the dice forever and then just scatter them all over. That's why I'd really like to
see some good rollers in the casino. I have my hot and cold streaks, but I think it's a
good idea for precision rollers to meet at a casino to learn this.
No question, some casinos definitely bar setting. This occurs in many places, although it
is less likely for the higher end casinos. Those places ALWAYS lose my business.
Therefore, threats by precision shooters seem to very low overall.
Date: 8/22/2001 10:48:10 AM (Pacific USA)
Slogan: rhythm dice setter
The key to setting the dice is to set them quick. After a
while you can set them up with one or two movement as you know the location of the number
that you want and where they are on the dice regardless of where the stick man gives them
to you. If you set them quick, the stickman or the pit guy can't complain and you get what
you want. Plus it never hurts to make a two way bet for the boys and they will tolerate
almost anything legal.
Date: 8/23/2001 4:28:24 PM (Pacific USA)
Ron Landon Sr.
Humm, good thoughts.. However, got my first warning from our
(only) local Casino just last night.. Quite simple, your gonna cost us to much money if
you keep doing that !! Last time I heard that one, no more Roulette.... So, I do think it
Ron Landon Sr.
Date: 8/23/2001 5:21:17 PM (Pacific USA)
One factor to consider is that when you are precision shooting
at a crowded table, the players are winning money, the dealers are raking in tokes, the
chances of getting heat is going to be from the box or the pit. The pit runs the risk of
running off a bunch of potential losing customers if they start hassling a winning shooter
who is playing by the rules.
Does anyone think this is a valid point.
A big difference between craps and blackjack is the group mentality of a crap table. I do
not think casino personnel are stupid enough to alienate an entire table of random rollers
( losers ) just because one dice setter happens to be winning a few bets on a hot roll.
Who would want to play at a place where a " No Winners Allowed " policy is in
Date: 8/23/2001 7:31:52 PM (Pacific USA)
Use some psychology make a hardways bet for you and the crew
and ask the stick to give em back hard 6 up if you throw the v6 set. Or you can ask for
your preference sixes up etc. after a few tokes before the dies come your way unless the
stick is a real ass he will do it for you.
Date: 8/29/2001 1:12:46 AM (Pacific USA)
are we in the beginning stages of casino response to dice
sharpshooters? dunno. It will depend on the response of the general public. if the general
public votes with their feet abandoning casinos with no setting/no winning rules, it will
become a competitive edge for those allowing it.
FWIW: I've been banned twice and returned to the same casinos with no problem. ausound
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