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Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.

Favorite Tables

Kelly

We're off to class this weekend, and I'm gathering a list of favorite tables for setters.

Irish has provided me with a few of his choices: Fremont, with its short rails (the table furthest from Fremont Street), and the Frontier.

I've also read Gaughan's Plaza has short tables, not too bouncy, as does the Flamingo Hilton.

I personally like the Bellagio tables, and those at Bally's, too.

Anyone else have any suggestions? We're downtown for the weekend, and on the Strip Monday and Tuesday, so I want to play lots of different places.

Spike717

Downtown is great! Try El Cortez, short table, dollar minimums. Also Las Vegas Club, and check out Main St. Station. $5 min., 20x odds (if u can afford it), and great beers. Don't give Fitzgeralds a second thought.

Heavy

The table closest to the bar at the Golden Nugget is the shortest one in their pit - and is known by the locals as "the candy store."

I've long been a fan of the tables at the Aladdin. Table C-10 next to the faux marble column has been very nice to me.

I also like the mini-tub game at Casino Royale.

Avoid (imo) Binions, Stratosphere, and Circus Circus - all too bouncy.

Better tables, but pricey - Caesars and Bellagio.

Mad Professor

Hi Kelly,

(a) I concur with Irishsetter on the Frontier tables, but be mindful that they HATE to lose money to ANY players, so don't rub their noses in it. Random-rolling on these tables is indeed RANDOM, so lay off of all but the truly qualified shooters.

(b) The Plaza tables aren't really short, but they provide GREAT consistency if you can get some "solo" shooting opportunities before 8:00 am.

(c) Most people hate the Golden Nuggets short tables, but I LOVE them. If their table-felt is near-new, just reduce the power (energy) of your throw a little bit, and increase your trajectory.

(d) The Tropicana tables have that low-level rail in the SL-1 and SR-1 positions for handicapped persons in wheelchairs. If those positions are open, you can really get some interesting angles and "reaches" across the stickmans position. The "old-school" dealers here really appreciate your tokes, and will facilitate your shooting-needs as much as possible.

(e) The full-quill ostrich-leather highly-padded rails at the Aladdin tables, are WIDE in the same style as the Park Place (Ballys & Paris use velour instead of leather) bolster rails. The tables are medium in length, with no underlay.

(f) Expect Bally's and Paris' short, forgiving tables to very busy this weekend, and with a $10, $15 & $25 range.

(g) MGM has some good short tables, but expect $25, $100 & $500 minimums in the Hollywood Casino, while you'll find cheaper $5 & $10 tables in the Sports Casino. By the way, don't be surprised if the SC tables are dead, while the HC tables are full. Go figure!

(h) NYNY has long, and unforgiving tables. This is the PERFECT place for a Darksiders Ball get-together, or for a "shooting-from the-Don'ts" strategy! Believe it or not, the "sweet-spot" on these tables is about 32" from the back-wall.

(i) Luxor has ONE good short table at the end of the craps pit. All the others are long and very busy on the weekend.

(j) Monte Carlo has six short tables that are fantastic to shoot on. It's taken almost a year of cultivation and toke-encouragement, but the dealers are dice-setter friendly IF you toke early and often. I won't give you actual dollar-figures, but these tables have been VERY kind to the Mad Professor since the second week in March, 2002.

(k) Expect 11 out of Bellagio's 12 tables to be open and not TOO busy. Your throwing here should produce some of the truest and straightest rolls even if you are positioned at the ends of these short tables.

(l) Treasure Islands short tables are great for early morning (4:30 am to 7:30 am) shooting. By the way, these tables are 20" shorter than the ones at the Mirage.

(m) Ceasars Palace uses "dog-bone" or "hourglass" shaped tables in the main Roman Forum casino. These tables have exagerated waists where the stickman's and the boxman's position are indented into the table. You might want to try "opposite corner" targeting on these ones.

(n) My current favorite table is at the Four Queens. But if the PARR Posse descends en-masse on this house again, my guess is that the "no dice-setting" signs will arrive shortly thereafter.

(o) My other current favorites are in Binions Horseshoe. Each table has it's own special characteristics, that would take a detailed reply at least as long as this one to list.

Good luck this weekend.

Stu

To Mad P.

When you say "increase your trajectory", is that the height or the length of the throw? ....or both?

Thanks in advance.

Kelly

thank you to all--lots of great info!

especially Mad P--wow! i am going to print your list and keep it as part of my permanent crap notes.

rhythm dice setter

Love the tub at Casino Royale. be careful on the regular tables as they are the long ones.  Agree with others that Frontier tables are great for setters plus business is slow there so you can find fairly empty table late at nite or early morning.
If you find time to drive to Henderson, the Green Valley Casino tables perform almost identical to the tables at Frontier. Monte Carlo tables are regular size but are more crowded with more business. My timing find it hard to find tables with open spots next to the stick man.

Pablo

I guess everyone has their own favorites and it may simply be where you've had the best luck.

If you have a car you might want to venture out Boulder Highway and check out Arizona Charlie's East. A small casino with short tables and nice friendly crew. Don't go early in the morning as the table doesn't open until afternoon, 2:00 I think.

I like the tables at both Mirage and Treasure Island. Nice short length and not a lot of bounce.

Flamingo Hilton went to the short tables (12') a few weeks ago and I found them to be the most bouncy of any I had played on in a long time.

I've also had good luck at Fitzgerald's and like their tables a lot. Friendly dealers and no heat to setters.

pj

Great info. I also will keep records of these casinos. I am going to Vegas in about a week. When discussed "short tables” and especially Treasure Island having 20" shorter, would a good practice distance be 6'5" from SR1?

Mad Professor

Stu,

Yes, when I say increase the trajectory, I mean increase the height of the throw, but not the distance. This results in a higher landing angle for the dice.

PJ,

Yes, a 6' to 6.5' practice distance would be correct for the Treasure Island tables.

Pablo,

Yes, the new Flamingo tables are bouncy, but a very low-trajectory throw rolls fairly true. Give their new felt a few more weeks to wear-in; then give them another cautious try.

As to the Fitzgerald tables, I've only had good fortune with these ones when I change over to my Long-Ranger grip and toss.

Shotputter

Any thoughts on any of the tables at the Station or Coast casinos?

Mad Professor

Shotputter,

That was a good question about the Station and Coast casino tables in Las Vegas.

Here's my thoughts:

GOLD COAST: If you've read my articles, you know that I like the tables here. If they have a couple of $2 or $3 and $5 tables open; expect the $5 one to be MUCH emptier than the cheaper alternatives. The only problem is that you can expect a full house on your PARR weekend. If you play on the graveyard shift, Godfrey the Pit Supervisor will not hassle VERY short-rolling. The table closest to the Sports Book and Bar is most difficult because it gets the least amount of play. "Opposite-corner-shooting" has proven be quite consistent on this one.

BARBARY COAST: Be careful if you start to string together too many "lucky" hands. THEY WILL SWEAT THE MONEY! The tables are hard, but not bouncy. Expect slight heat if you don't consistently hit the back wall. As Cheech and Chong would say, "Toke early and toke consistently". It sometimes takes a while before you get the crew and the box on your side. The table closest to the Flamingo Road entrance (check-in desk) has a straight and true rolling lane parallel to the Pass Line. Reduce your dice-momentum to their minimum, and consistency on this table is AMAZING!

ORLEANS: I don't know that you'll get the dice very often on these tables. They are pretty good, but they aren't consistent enough for me to truly call this place "home". Instead, it is great for a "hit and run" one-hand strategy. The food is good, the entertainment is great, but don't expect too many shooting opportunities.

SUNCOAST: Ah, good tables. If you plan a late, late (read: 4:00 am to 6:00 am) shooting-session, this place is worth the drive. The local crowd and the golf-crowd turn in fairly early here. If red-haired Barbara-Jean (BJ) is supervising the game, toke ONLY on the Pass Line and make sure she sees it. Even if it's only a buck ($1) with 2x Odds, it will pretty much guarantee a comp to one of their high-end gourmet rooms.

GREEN VALLEY RESORT: I haven't dialed in their tables as well as I would like. I can tell you that the table closest to the Bar has a very forgiving sweet spot about 6-inches from the the back wall (straight out). If you use a 45-degree or higher landing angle; you will find a perfect dead-cat bounce hiding under this spot. I can't speak intelligently about the other table, as I do not have enough data to form any definitive opinions.

BOULDER STATION & PALACE STATION: I can group these two together because their tables and the expected results are about the same. I'm not a huge fan of these tables because of the crowds. The low-minimums especially at BS keep the tables busy just about 24-hours a day. The SL and SR positions are usually occupied by a handfull of local players who camp out there on a daily basis. They aren't Precision-Shooters, just random-rollers who have their mail forwarded to their favorite spot at the tables. Some people play these tables for 8 to 14 hours EACH and every day.

SUNSET STATION: Ohhh, one of my favorites. Even though they have long tables here, the first three SR & SL positions are close enough to provide some GREAT consistency. One word of caution, DO NOT take them for too much money. Greed will get you 86'd from shooting. There is a small group of local Precision-Shooters who are allowed to win virtually every day, BUT the unwritten rule is that you DO NOT take them for more than $300 per day. If you don't abide by the rules, you will find yourself unwelcome from shooting. They will simply pass you by, and tell you that you are not permitted to shoot. The table (angled) closest to the Gaudi Bar is the most forgiving as far as non-bouncy throwing is concerned.

TEXAS STATION & SANTE FE STATION: Very good tables here. During late-night weekdays, these tables are empty, but weekend action is quite steady. You might try 3:00 am to 5:00 am, for some fairly frequent throwing opportunities. The primary sweet-spot for me is at the outer (farthest) edge of the Come-Box. However, reduce your throwing energy to its lowest possible level. These tables carry a lot of speed in forward-momentum.

If you need info on the Fiesta-NLV, Barley's, Wild West, Jokers Wild, or Fiesta-Henderson tables, please let me know.

rhythm dice setter

Have better success at Green Valley tables than the other Station casinos. The longer tables at the Stations casinos has kept my SRR down from normal but still above 10. Maybe your info will help out.
Will try the Coast casinos this month and report back.

Thanks for the helpful info again.

heavy

Suncoast is Beaudacious' "home" casino - he plays there fairly often along with the rest of the 4am crowd. Hmmmm. MP - have you two met? We might could arrange a little private pitchin' party either in September during G2E - or November with Irish, Beau and I are doing the clinic in Vegas. Just a thought. I plan to check out Suncoast when I'm out there in September - pick up a players card and get in a little rated play - see if I can't get on their comp list.

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