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Forward Spin / Backspin

Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.

rennw

When I practice at home usually stand 12 to 14 feet back and impart a back spin to the dice, which are thrown with palm facing down. I try to keep the spin at a slower speed (fewer rotations) but sometimes I like to let'em go with a fast spin and try to hit right at the place the rubber meets the felt. I can not seem to get a nice precise forward spin unless i am shooting 10 feet out and closer. Also I am aware of mad professors forward spinning with palm up throw. My question -Do many of you have success with a palm down back spin throw?

Heavy

I rarely see anyone use the palm up - forward spin toss. I'm of the opinion that back spin is the way to go - less for short range - more for long range - to keep the dice on axis.

Billy

Yes I toss palm down as most of the setters I know do but 14 feet away?WoW thats a shot and a half.I do know shooters that shoot fron straight out on long tables but they have worked on getting their very soft from that distance and IMO it is harder with greater chance for error. Why dont you start practicing from alot closer and move back gradually.Its easier from say 4/5 feet and then 6/8 feet and then take on that 14 foot challenge.Concentrate on the soft toss and work up.

Shooter57

Forward spin is easier to attain by standing sideways to your target and tossing like lobbing a ball under handed. Your position at table would be on the hook across from dealer throwing across the sticks position. With forward spin the dies actually pick up momentum so your landing point should be just the other side of the prop bets if you don't want to hit the wall and the center of the come area if you want to lightly tap it. GOOD LUCK

Roller

This is an important subject.

How the dice move AFTER they land is critical. Our objective is to hold the set through all movement until the dice stop.

As some of you may know from my communications, I have experimented extensively with forward and backward spin. There is no one correct answer. It depends on many variables -- rate of spin, velocity of throw, height of throw, angle of throw launch, point of launch, etc. You see, it is a complex interaction of many variables. Any factor could be more salient depending on the particular throw. Any factor could be dominant or less dominant depending on how these factors manifest themselves in an individual throw.

After sifting through all the complexities, the key is to control the dice so that you exert influence and your set holds for the entire duration of dice movement until the dice stop.

Regarding spin, here is an example. A back spin launched with a very high velocity, say "x" will tend to create more energy than a forward spin launched with a much velocity of say "1.5 x." In this case, all other things being equal, the launch with the much higher velocity will tend to be more difficult to control to the point of holding the set. On the other hand, changing some other variable of the throw by a significant amount could easily negate this in some other way.

This holds true for spin, the subject of this post. But it also holds true for all other factors of precision throwing.

Mad Professor

Roller,

What you wrote is exactly correct.

parallelepiped piper

imparting reverse pitch on the dice helps to subvert the forward momentum which is a integral part of the throw. Thus diminishing the overriding velocity which cause the die (or dice) to impact the back wall. A secondary effect imparted is gyroscopic stability which keep the dice centripital and maintain symmetry throughout the forward pitching motion.

Man In Black

TO: rennw

When I practice, I stand about the distance where I would be standing in a casino, just to the left of the stickman. My target is three inches from the back wall. The dice do have backspin, and the wall usually stops the dice, keeping them on axis when they stop. If I were to extend my target area to 12 inches from the back wall, I use the same soft motion to toss the dice. The dice usually land, then tumble forward straightly at a high rate of speed. I usually don't use this target area because it is easier to make the dice land and stop when I use the three inch target.

May the dice be with you, always...

What all that spin-stuff meant . . .

Heavy

A little bit of back spin helps keep the dice on axis and slows them down when they hit the table - reducing their speed when they hit the back wall.

In college I never understood why they paid professors to write text books that no one could understand. Why not hire a writer, give him the information you want presented - then let him do his job.

Barry Sasser

Like golf, a little backspin may be helpful.

Spin is tricky business. If the dice hit each other, or anything else, they'll "squirt" or tumble sideways - off axis.

That said, a "shotput" throw, more "pushing" those dice towards target than spinning or rolling yields a softer landing, but there will be a tendency for the cubes to "bounce" - possibly off center. Some velocity keeps them on axis.

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