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Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.

My Ineffective Front Stance

Ray

Greetings: I've been trying to practice Yuri's method of throwing the dice with my hips moving my arms from a front stance, i.e., while facing toward the end of the table from the other end, but I might as well be trying to do a jumping jack. Can any of you guys describe how it's done in some way better than Yuri did in his book? I recognise that a throw controlled from the hips would be more reliable and controllable than one thrown strictly with the arm, etc., for the same reason that it would be easier to steer a truck with a big steering wheel rather than a tiny one, but I cannot figure out how control from the hip can be done frontally absent a twist which might as well be done sideways. If any of you guys have figured this out, or dismissed it, please let me know.

Mad Professor

Hello Ray,

I can't speak for Yuri's actual stance, but I can comment about my own hip-movement if I am shooting from the END of the table.

If I am at NYNY or Luxor or any other place that has a medium- long (16-18 feet long) table, and I am relegated to the end of it; then I have to employ a significant "hip-lift" throw.

Let me TRY to describe it.

(i) Just prior to releasing the dice, I slightly bend my knees. To accomplish this, I exhale and let my lungs and stomach contract. This has the effect of lowering your stance or your actual height. Since I am already slightly bending over the table while gripping the dice, it feels natural.

(ii) As I pick the dice up, I have not entirely straightened my back. My hand and arm moves into it's pre-throw back-swing much like your own description of your throw.

(iii) As my arm swings forward and builds up momentum, my spine and also my knees begin to "unwind".

(iv) Simultaneously, my hips thrust forward and upward. This action helps my upper body stretch towards the other end of the table.

(v) My "plant" foot, which would be my right foot, since I am right-handed remains firmly planted.

(vi) At the same time, my left foot and leg extends backwards significantly.

Picture this. Imagine standing at the end of a craps table, and you are reaching for something in the middle of the table. To have the farthest reach, you will stand on your right foot while you entend your right arm forward. Concurrently, you will extend your left leg backwards to counter-balance your extended reach.

Oh, by the way, if there is another craps table behind you, be careful about kicking other nearby players or "looky-loos".

Good Luck -&- Good Skill at the Tables.

Golfer 7/11

Hi MP,

Just a quick comment on your stance. I use an opposite style, throwing with my right hand and planting my left leg. I think the reach is longer this way. It's sort of like going for a righthanded layup jumping off your left foot. I use the table for balance. My hips have to face the table more than I think yours does but I feel free with my shoulders.

Appreciate all your articles. Every point of view helps with the overall undertanding of the variables to be found.

Mad Professor

Hi Golfer,

I've never measured the difference in reach for those two throws.

In baseball and golf, I swing right-handed, but in hockey I shoot from the left, so maybe I've got it all backwards. I just go with what feels comfortable. That keeps my dice-throwing as natural-feeling as possible.

MP

Heavy

I use the sideways stance - if you have the Yuri book take a look at page 90 - photo 45 - it's amazing how close that one is to my own. Actually - I stand closer to a ninety degree angle to the table than that - so instead of my thigh resting against the drink rail it's usually my hip against the top rail. Weight is roughly 80/20 on my right (plant) foot. And yep, I've got that free hand on my left hip just like Yuri.

Okay - I'll put this in Texan so maybe you good old boys will understand. if you've ever made homemade biscuits it's kind of interesting to watch them. They start out maybe an inch thick. But you put them in the oven and they do two things. First they do what I call "squatting-to-rise." They kind of shrink down about a quarter inch or so when they first hit the heat. Then the oven does its magic and they rise up to 2 - 3 inches thick. Well - that pretty much describes my toss. I get the dice in my hands and I flex my knees slightly - exercising a little "squat" - this is probably on unlike MP's exhale and sink down move. Then I "rise" up - with pretty much my entire body in the toss.

Geeze. Ever notice how fat guys always describe stuff relative to food? I'm feeling the need for some late night biscuits and gravy now.

Ray

Dear MP, Golfer, -&- Heavy: I copied and saved all your comments into a new file, FrontStanceCraps, and I will work with everyone's methods to try to find a controlled throw that works for me from the end of the table. I appreciate it very much guys. Very Respectfully, Ray

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