I would like to thank all the readers for their participation
in the dice survey. And, I would also like to thank Ed for the
countless hours he put in to create a format that made it easy for
all our site visitors to read. I found the comments and feedback very
enlightening. Dice Setter Survey
For several months I have received various e-mails regarding
where I stand with the biased dice issue. I am hard pressed to give
people an answer and instead send them over to blogs or message boards
more familiar with the issue. I know that at some point I will take a
stand. What I can say now is that it is not part of my gaming reality.
Yet, far be it for me to remove it from another player's gaming
reality. I will be publishing my view on the web site and let the
readers know via email when I am ready to share my insight.
In general, the survey
indicated that about 60% of those who participated believed the
casinos were not utilizing biased dice. The remaining 40 percent of
bias believers could be significant,yet some of those who
believed in the bias are missing the entire picture and blame their
losses on evil casinos using them without any regard to other
contributing factors for their loss. If that is the only thing a
player can attribute their losses to then they need to give up the
game altogether. The game is so complex and has so many energetic
variables creating trends impacting it along with this issue.
One lingering question I have always had with this issue is
that, to me, it seems that should the casinos knowingly introduce a
different bias into the game for short term gain, how in the long run
would it serve them, since the best odds over the long term are built
in their favor to begin with without introducing bias? And, if
anything comes out of all of this, I hope it is that the casinos will
take a closer look at their dice measuring capabilities.
Question Part I: Ever heard
of this? Dice that are square within tolerances, however each die is a
different weight. It appears to upset the normal probabilities of the
dice, much less mess up good shooters. In Illinois, there are no
regulations governing dice so it would appear that there are some games
being played, Does this make any sense to you? It seems like simple
physics would indicate this is a problem.
Ed Answers Part I:
Ross, Yes, I get plenty of
bad dice alerts and most of them are from players that frequent Indian casinos, but I do get
some about L.V. too.
I am short on time and will get back to
your question in detail. But think of this in the meantime. If the dice
are weighted to upset normal probability, then does it not figure the
dice must bias? If you owned a casino, what would you want
to have “fixed”, so your “funny dice” would be bias and upset normal
Ross's Question Part II: It would be my opinion that with individual die total weight that is
different it would randomize the dice more, especially with a shooter
who has some influence. It's basic Newtonian physics. To answer your
question Ed, if I was a casino, I would want to foil any shooter that
can influence the dice with more random results which the different
density dice offer. The shooter would rarely get a matched pair of dice,
therefore random results. A STD dice weighs .31 oz or 8.8 grams.
Answers Part II:
Oddly enough, dice are not regulated
as far I know, even in Nevada. A couple of years ago when this topic
was really being pressed by a Dice Setter.com subscriber living in Las Vegas, I
shared the email with a mathematician that I rely on for stats,
probabilities, odds, out-comes and gambling research. During his
research, he discovered that contrary to what dice players all seem to
believe as truth, casino dice are not regulated. Just the same, they
are spot on accurate, and there is a good reason, but before I get
there… One reason casinos are so guarded with the dice, numbered in
sets of 5 to 6 dice, is to prohibit cheating by the players.
Ever wonder why the boxman will carefully check and spin a die between his fingering after
that die has left the game? He is making sure the returned die is a
casino die. For around $200 you can purchase loaded dice to favor the out come
of your choosing. By the way, you can purchase the exact same dice
casinos use from a US dice manufacture, Midwest Gaming Supply. Of course
you cannot purchase dice with
a casino's logo and you may have to buy a lot them to qualify your
order, or you can go to
Dice Coach and purchase
regulation, casino grade, matched sticks of dice. Side note, if you have not seen the
movie “Yonkers Joe”, watch it some time.
If weighted dice upset the normal
probabilities, then what probabilities are replacing normal?
Physics aside, there are only 36 possible outcomes. What outcome would
be most desirable for a casino? Even with randomly weighted dice, how
would the outcome guarantee the casino better results than true dice
already do? I agree the shooter would rarely get random
results. But what results would be dominant? You cannot have “more
random results” than the “random results” with fair dice.
Loads, inevitably have to favor some outcome other than random. It‘s
not physics, it’s probability. Just as dice setters attempt to shift
the odds by manipulating the dice, the intention with biased dice is to shift the
probability. Weighted dice select for a certain result and the dice
setter attempts to do the same thing.
Okay, say in a mix of six dice
all weighted differently, there would be 15 different possible
combinations for paired dice. Think about this, and I’ll come back to my question
of favoring which numbers?
6 sevens out of 36, the house maintains their advantage over
the player no matter how they bet.
If for example, the dice were weighted
heavy for more 7’s, the game would be so short, even a compulsive
gambler with a large bankroll would have to eventually figure out that something
was very wrong. (Not to mention by making the correct bets, this
actually favors the player, not the casino. See #7.)
favoring more sevens would not be advantageous for the casino in the
long run. Once players became aware of it, they would either stop
playing, (I would hope) or simple take advantage of the situation.
The game can only end on a seven, so
if there are 15 possible pairs of dice and not all pairs are favoring the
seven, then the bias “seven pair” would have to be slipped
in and out of the game. Or does the casino just let the shooter roll
nine’s until a seven eventually shows up? Okay, the box man runs the
game and can do whatever the hell he wants with the dice. The
players will bitch at him when he switches out the dice, but he’s got
tough skin and could care less. But, after the players notice how the
seven-out shows up shortly after the dice are switched, duh, who will
keep playing that game?
Long answers to get to your question…
“No it does make any sense to me for a casino to cheat with crooked
dice.” Other gaming experts and math experts that I have conferred with regarding bent
crap games agree. This also includes conversations with Table
Gaming Managers and Floor Supervisors. The casinos already have a
built in, guaranteed
advantage with fair dice. They do not have to mess with it by trying to
make it better. Crooked
dice are designed to change random results by favoring another outcome
other than random. Casinos depend on random probability for their
bottom line. Crooked dice are for crooked players, not crooked
With all the websites, forums, and
communication technologies, how long do you think it would take to
ruin a casino’s creditability with stories about crooked dice?
(True or not?)
The reason casinos use fair dice
is because fair dice provide the best outcome, fair dice favors the house odds…. And that is something
that they can count on, without doubt or defamation. On top of that,
they already created an additional advantage over the player, and yet every dice player
willing accepts it as part of the game.... and not cheating. It is called
the House Odds!
If your are in doubt about the
game being fair, don’t play dice... you can't lose.
The results of
our survey asking the questions, "Have you played craps in a
casino and felt that the dice used in the game were altered or
otherwise not fair dice? Do you think casinos cheat
at the dice table?" have been posted at
Dice Setter Survey table of
contents. You can read for yourself how the individuals responding to the
questions feel about the game.
It is our
intention to share the information as a way of allowing readers to be
informed of other players opinions. It is not our intention to take the
side of alter dice, biased dice or otherwise unfair dice, suspected of
being used in a game.
understand how the math of the game already makes for a huge advantage
for anyone banking a craps game, their is no reason to have to tweak an
already good thing. Consider that casinos are regulated and stand to
risk the loss of their licenses for cheating, it simply does not make
sense for them to gamble on the risk of being closed down. Casinos are
not in the business of gambling in the true sense of the word. They are
invested in a known outcome. All they need is a steady stream of willing
customers in order to make profit.
The pupil must develop a new sense of, more accurately, a
new alertness of all his senses, which will enable him to avoid dangerous
thrusts as though he could feel them coming. Once he has mastered this art of
evasion, he no longer needs to watch with undivided attention the movement of
his opponent, or even of several opponents at once. Rather, he sees and feels
what is going to happen and at that same moment he has already avoided its
effect without there being "a hair's breadth" between perceiving and avoiding.
This, then, is what counts: a lightning reaction which has no further need of
conscious observation. In this respect at least the pupil makes himself
independent of all conscious purpose. And that is a great gain.
Eugen Herrigel - Zen In The Art Of Archery
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