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Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.

Analyze This Session - Going To Vegas!

Bill C

I'm headed to Las Vegas from April 8 thru April 12. I've been practicing my dice setting on my practice table I built using the regulation diamond bumper pads and felt. I use the V-3's set, with the hard 8 on top. I throw from 11 feet away. One thing I have trouble with is getting my dice to stay together in the air...as they usually sail thru the air about 6 inches apart from each other. I always have the table loaded down with chips when I practice throwing, so I face the same conditions I encounter in the casino, instead of an empty table.

Here are the results of today's practice. The results of each throw is listed as a two digit number, ie, 35 means a 3 was up on one die and a 5 was up on the other die. I usually place the 6 and 8, without a comeout bet. Looking over these results below, I would entertain any advise and comments anyone might have. I started off rolling 8 numbers before a 7, then 13, then 26, then 7, then 13, then 6, then 4 (was getting tired, I guess...as I had to go fetch the dice between each throw.) then 2, then 4, then 6 then 3, then 4, finally 16 rolls and then 3 rolls.

(Anybody see any signature numbers in there for me? Any advise to be gleaned from this session?)

Results: 55,24,14,13,36,14,46,22,[16] 8 rolls...1 winning number

46,15,11,13,15,66,35,12,66,44,44,26,35 [16]...13 rolls...7 6 or 8's

12,22,13,56,36,55,36,55,36,23,36,33,45,35,12,23,66,36,36,13,12,4 4,23,23,46,15,22,26 [25]...26 rolls but only a total of 4 6 or 8's rolled!

34,45,33,26,22,15,14 [34] 7 rolls with 4 6 or 8's.

12 [34], [16] 66, [25] duh!

45,46,45,22,66,45,36,46,56,15,14,13,14 [25] 13 rolls, but only 1 6 rolled, no 8's!

23,45,45,56,66,11 [16] 6 rolls, but no 6's or 8's

12,12,44,14 [34] 4 rolls with 1 8 rolled

66,23 [16]

23,36,15,66 [25] 1 6 rolled

12,46,33,45,24,26 [16] 6 rolls, with 2 6's and 1 8 rolled

46,35,46 [34] 1 8 rolled

12 [25]

46,26,46,13 [34] 1 8 rolled

44,55,23,15,26,45,15,15,13,15,22,36,13,46,26,66 [16] 16 numbers rolled with 7 6's or 8's

26,46,56 [25] 1 8 rolled




You're having a problem with one die rolling out a quarter turn off axis about 25% of the time. This is probably a grip issue - as is the problem you're having with the dice not holding together in the air. Think about using a little talc on your fingers so you don't get the friction. I would not suggest changing your grip this close to the Vegas trip - but if you are not using a top grip (see grip photos on front page of this site) that could be part of the problem.

My other suggestion would be for you to limit your playing time to early in the day as much as possible. Look for low limit - uncrowded tables so you can get a lot of tosses in in a short period of time. With the V-3 pre-set, if you start seeing things like fours and tens you are having a roll-out problem. Adjust your grip and continue on - but know you are in dangerous territory. Regress your bets down or turn them off until you get it back on axis.

Dice Gal


You'll have to have a line bet to shoot the dice. (I could have just misunderstood the above statement in your post)

Anyway, heavy had some good suggestions. Play LOW and SLOW. I don't know your bankroll, but starting out on low limit tables ($2 or $3) I'd go for single unit pass with double odds and single unit 6 and 8 until you get a feel for how your throw is going. With the V-3's, you should be throwing 6's and 8's. If you're having a long throw but NOT throwing them, try a couple of come bets with single odds.

REMEMBER, there is ALWAYS time on a monster roll to raise your bets and spread them.

Good luck!


They both have good advice.

It looks to me that you are rolling a lot of 4's and 10's.


My first impression upon reading you post. 11 feet is a long range toss. Are you tossing from the end of the table. I think this is a problem because the dice are not staying on axis for many rolls. I believe you might consider shooting from Stick left or right in a range from 5 - 9 feet.

I agree with Heavy and Irishsetter's comments. They are very valid.

Mickey D

Bill: My advice for what it's worth: Whoa.... Slow down there Junior!!! Before I tried my dice setting skills (If that's what they can be called!) in real life casino settings with real life money, I practiced until my fingers almost fell off. I had about 4,000 throws of the dice under my belt and tried everyone of the grips that Heavy talked about. I found one that was most comfortable for me and then threw some more. SO what's my point? Don't rush things!!! Experiment with the different grips, and pick one that feels the most natural in your hand, definetly move closer than 11', and keep practicing. The tables will still be there a month from now when your throw matures. Best of luck

Bill C

This is a return trip for me to Las Vegas, paid for totally from my craps winnings on the last trip there in December. It would be my first trip where I might actually try to set the dice, as I was previously a random roller.

The way things are looking, I may just pass the dice and play my usual game of $60 on 6 and 8 after come out roll without any bet on come out. Regress to $30 on 6 and 8 with first hit on either, then totally down on second hit on either. Only betting after qualifying the table for my place 6 and 8 bets.

Bankroll this trip, just a tad over $5k. Hope to come out with about a dozen more winning sessions than losing sessions. With my win/loss limits, that would totally pay for my next trip there in the fall.

Wish me luck

Dice Gal


If you're going to be in Vegas.... throw the dice!! Just take it easy on the wagering when you're doing so. You never know what'll happen! My first attempt at dice setting went like this. Point, Pass, Point, Pass, Point, Pass, Point, Seven out. 3 Passes in 8 throws. Was it the monster hand I'd hoped for? Nope, but it was more than enough to send me home to practice practice practice.....

Good Luck!

Bill C


I thought I had read somewhere on this site that if you could control/influence the dice once in something like 43 rolls, that was enough to turn it into a positive expectation game.

I'm staying on axis three out of four rolls. One of this boards' members run my rolls thru his spread sheet program and emailed me the results of his number crunching....they were shocking!

I had 10 percent more 7's than expected had I been random rolling and 10 percent fewer 6's and 8's than expected had I been random rolling! Exactly backwards of what I was trying to accomplish!

(I'd have been ahead, according to the results of these rolls/expectations, to have simply 'chicken feed' the dice!) I find these results make it hard for me to accept the claim I've read in paragraph #1.


Chemo Savvy


I don't know what to tell ya without seeing your data. My guess is you're at the early stages of this. If you've looked at the practice data area, you should be expecting similar results after a good deal of practice.

I still say, shoot the dice!

Bill C

Hi T-Shooter,

I had another session today and the results are below:  seems to be much better than last one I listed here. I had rolls of 22 and 25 rolls during this session.  I think I'll probably toss those bones a few time while in Las Vegas from Monday thru Friday, to see how things come out. (I'm a full-time professional wedding photographer and have to fit vacations between weddings.  Check out my website at:

I worked up a data base to where all I have to do is create a new record for each session played, then just enter the number of 2's rolled, then 3's rolled....on up to 12's rolled.  It does all the calculations for me and saves it in a printable record form, like the output below, which is a copy and paste of that output.

                            Dice Roll Result Analysis
                 Expected Expected     V-3          Random
                 Random:  V-3 set:  Deviation:   Deviation:
2's rolled?   2   2's   3  2's   0      0.0000      0.6372
3's rolled?   8   3's   6  3's   7      1.1327      1.2743
4's rolled?  12   4's   9  4's   7      1.6991      1.2743
5's rolled?  12   5's  13  5's  14      0.8496      0.9558
6's rolled?  26   6's  16  6's  21      1.2271      1.6566
7's rolled?  17   7's  19  7's  14      1.2035      0.9027
8's rolled?  14   8's  16  8's  21      0.6608      0.8920
9's rolled?  12   9's  13  9's  14      0.8496      0.9558
10's rolled?  6   10's  9  10's  7      0.8496      0.6372
11's rolled?  2   11's  6  11's  7      0.2832      0.3186
12's rolled?  2   12's  3  12's  0      0.0000      0.6372

 TOTALROLLS:113   Date: 04/04/2002

Forgot to mention that 3 of those sevens were back to back at the start of a point, to where they wouldn't have hurt me.



How many rolls have you done that you have come up with these statistics? I don’t recall exactly what was said at the class (and the numbers are here on this web site somewhere), but you would need to track about 6000 rolls before you could conclude that anything you were doing was anything other than random!

Even once you were to take your grip/set/throw to a real casino, your signature numbers might be different from what you throw on your practice table. Even the relative position of the dice to each other and from your throwing position will change once you get into the casino environment.

What you can do by practicing, is to get a good comfortable grip that you can quickly and consistently replicate, a good consistant throwing motion and release.

If you go to the same casino on a regular basis, play at the same table in the same position, then after a few thousand throws (20- 30 hours of you throwing the dice, not just playing at the table) can you begin to say that you can consistently influence the dice.

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