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Topic: Axis Set(s) vs Top/Face Set(s)
Post
Date: 11/8/2001 7:54:19 AM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
PorkChop
Slogan: Hard 8's = Double Parlay
As is explained elsewhere, as their are only six axis sets
available with two die, any/all independent top/face sets are in fact simply sub-sets of
the axis sets - therefore my question is do top/face sets produce superior results vs axis
sets?? - and if so - why??
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Post
Date: 11/8/2001 8:30:55 AM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
smoove j
I've thought about this, as well. The way I see it, a *truly*
precise shooter can make the dice behave in a coupled manner (ie they make the same number
of axial rotations). This means that while each die now has 4 possible outcomes, the dice
are not independent. This can theoretically mean that the outcomes can be further reduced
from 16 possible to 4 possible. Of course this is only the ideal case.
What really started me thinking about this was an article by Mad Prof, where he mentions
that on the comeout roll his occurrence of 7's approaches 75%. A few seconds with a pair of
dice will convince you that that is only possible if the dice are not independent of one
another when he tosses. I'd be curious to hear how he manages to do it.
May your 7's be few and far between,
--jay
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Post
Date: 11/8/2001 10:38:13 AM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
Mad Professor
Hi,
You hit upon the reason for the high-occurrence of 7's on the Come-Out. They not only stay
on-axis, but the dice each rotate the same number of "tumbles". Using the
"all-7" set, there is a preponderance of 7 rolled.
Good Luck & Good Skill at the tables.
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Post
Date: 11/8/2001 11:18:47 AM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
smoove j
Mad Prof,
So is there some special technique that allows the dice to have such an amazing
correspondence? Is it just a higher plane that practice will allow all of us prospective
precision rollers to ascend to? Or do you have some kind of psychic super-glue ability up
your sleeve. Either way, getting them to stay on axis and roll perfectly together is an
amazing feat. Hats off to you!
May your 7's be few and far between,
--smoove j
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Post
Date: 11/8/2001 1:54:37 PM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
Mad Professor
Hi Jay,
No, there is no psychic super-glue, I no longer have my Captain Crunch decoder ring, and I
don't use the secret handshake of the Fraternal Order of Water-Buffalo to achieve
consistency at the dice tables.
Understand that the dice do not roll perfectly on EVERY toss. De-randomizing the dice is
enough to generate profit from 19-out-of-20 sessions.
It is easier to roll 7's from the "All-Seven" set on the come-out roll, than it
is to roll just 6's and 8's from the 3-V set.
Everything that you need on that particular subject is right there in my articles.
Good Luck & Good Skill at the tables.
MP
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Post
Date: 11/8/2001 3:05:53 PM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
PorkChop
Slogan: Hard 8's = Double Parlay
MP - Thank you for your invaluable insite - I have read 99.44%
of your posts and I find them, (as EVERYONE else also does), simply fantastic - keep up
the fine work. Not to seem like a simpleton - but I can not find a solid reference to what
the "all sevens" set actually is, (ie - top/face set numbers), please enlighten
the current darkness that obscures my vision.
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Post
Date: 11/8/2001 5:09:18 PM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
Chemo
Savvy
Home Page: Hiway66
Pork Chop,
Actually your question has several angles. There is a COMFORT level in setting with
favored specific top/faces, so there's the psychological factor. You and MP have spoken
eloquently about by top/face setting you are able to achieve a better success rate with
your throwing. BUT lastly, there is the underlying reality that all precision shooters
must also know how to quick set and camouflage your skill as some casinos will attempt to
deter you. Excellent topic!
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Post
Date: 11/8/2001 5:39:49 PM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
Mad Professor
Hi PC,
The "All-7" dice-set, is where each face of the two dice equals 7.
For example:
If you set the top face of two dice to a 3 on one face, and a 4 on the other, then it will
automatically set up the 5 and 2 on another face. The 4 and 3 then appears on the third
face, while the 2 and 5 appear on the fourth face. Finally the 1 and 6, and the 6 and 1
would form the axis.
That adds up to the "ALL-SEVEN" set that can be used for the come-out roll by a
Pass Line bettor, or can be used by the Don't Pass bettor once they have established the
Point.
When this set remains on axis, it also throws off a huge number of Hardways, and zero
Craps.
Good Luck & Good Skill at the tables.
MP
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Post
Date: 11/9/2001 8:25:33 AM (Pacific USA) |
P4K |
Author:
PorkChop
Slogan: Hard 8's = Double Parlay
MP / Irish
Thank you for the input - I am using a voice system to record my practice throws at home -
I am using two color die and I record the following data for each throw:
PRE THROW:
1. Table position, (SL, SLL, SR, SRR, etc).
2. Top face for red and green die.
3. Vertical face, (the face that I am look at on the vertical plane), for each die.
4. Grip, (I have defined three grips and numbered them 1-3), I try and throw sets of 600
throws with each grip).
POST THROW:
1. Number of die that hit wall.
2. Approximate distance, (estimated in inches), of roll back from wall.
3. Top face of both read and green die.
4. Vertical face of both red and green die.
I also record the following:
Come Out
Point #
Point Made
Seven Out
Do you recommend recording any additional data??
When I get sufficient data, I can track/analyze a multitude of options - progress,
results, trends, etc.
Any input that either of you would recommend would be greatly appreciated.
PorkChop
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