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Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.

  Topic: Thanks Mad P but I need help - Mechanics

Post Date: 11/9/2001 10:17:31 AM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Stu
Slogan: Professional want-to-be

I was in AC for the last 2 days, and took a beating. Lack of discipline and patience were my biggest problems. I am working on those issues.

Finding empty tables was not easy, even during mid week.

I stayed at a comp room at the Sands, and earned a gourmet comp ($50) to Luna's at the Claridge (thanks to your articles stressing the use of the comp card). That was probably my first time being in such an upscale restaurant. I was almost fearful to ask for that type of comp, even though I did not know it was that type of restaurant, though I knew it was classier than the buffet. I had to ask the hostess was I under dressed.

Again, thanks to your articles that stress the pleasures of fine food and the fine dining experience, I got a glimpse into a another world.


1. Ideally, using your normal grip, and I assume standing to the immediate right hand side of the stick man, how far (2" or 4" or 6" or 8" etc.) from the back wall is the ideal landing spot of the dice?

2. Ideally, how much space is between the dice when they leave your hand AND when they land (no space 1/16" 1/8" 1/4" etc)?

3. It seems, I'm able to throw the dice mirror like, but I have not become consistent in the dice rolling together upon landing.....they scatter or pop around. Any suggestions?

4. However, the last 8 7-outs from the trip, had 6 of them with a 3 or a 4. I was using the flying-v set....so the they were on axis but that was highly frustrating. I tried rolling one die, one turn, to avoid it but it didn't help much. MY goal was to avoid the on axis 7-out. Any comments?

I have read 100% of your articles. And I find many gems in your message board postings...that didn't make it into one of the articles. Since all past postings are not easily available, I will print your response.

Thanks. Keep up the good work.

Maintaining persistence.


Post Date: 11/11/2001 3:25:23 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: heavy
Slogan: Set 'em & Forget 'em

Stu -

I'll give you the "heavy" version of an answer. I'm sure MP will get to you as well. And by the way - congratulations on the comp. I make it a practice to end every session with a request for SOMETHING - even if I'm not going to use it. Unused comps get credited back to your account - and it can help build your balance over the long run.

When I'm standing next to stick I throw the dice directly down the don't pass line - aiming for the big 6/8 box - and a gentle bounce against the back wall near the hook. I know you don't have the big 6/8 in AC - so this will be the area just inside the come area at the hook - trying to bounce gently over any bets in the hook. On occasions when that spot doesn't work I'll toss them to a spot about 6-8 inches short of the DP line on the far end - pretty much straight out - with the dice hitting in the come area and again bouncing over any bets. Last of all - if I'm trying to kill the dice for a specific number - say I'm trying to do the dead cat bounce with a hard eight up - then I aim at the space at the back of the layout - trying to land the dice within a half inch or so of the back wall so they rock against the flat space at the back of the wall without tumbling. I put a little more loft on the dice for that move.

I'm a stacker - so I don't worry about space between the dice when shooting from next to stick. From straight out the dice are locked together on the release and mo more then 1.5 - 3 inches apart upon landing - hopefully on axis.

You're problem with the dice scattering or popping around may be related to the loft on the dice. Try keeping them a little lower on the table and see if that might help.

I am very conscious of my body position, set, release, loft and strike point when throwing the dice. If I get a toss I particularly like - say a 5-4 nine - which is what I generally set for - then I'll continue to repeat that same exact throw over and over - working on repeating that single number for as many hits as possible. You'd be surprised how many time's I've thrown 5 or 6 nines in a row.

Hell - Sometimes I surprise myself.

Post Date: 11/11/2001 5:59:22 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Mad Professor

Hi Stu,

I posted long answers to your questions three times in a row, but they got lost in cyber-space when this Board went down.

Just like John Patrick would advocate; after three straight losses, I WALKED. I put the lengthy answers in my upcoming article, "Even More Cyber-Questions."

Irishsetter will be able to tell you when it will be published on this site.

In the meantime, the short answers are as follows:

(i) The landing-zone varies from table to table, and ranges from 20" away the backwall, all the way down to 0" at the base of the wall.

(ii) The dice leave my hand side-by-side. The space between them when they reach their final resting area, is NOT important. What IS important is that they both tumble the same number of rotations.

(iii) Dice "pop" or scatter is usually caused by using way TOO MUCH force when you throw them.

(iv) The fact that the 3 is showing on one die, and the 4 is showing on the other; tells you that one dice rotated EXACTLY two more rotations than the other. Heavy is correct. The straightest throwing-lane will give you the truest roll-out for the dice.

Stu, congratulations on experiencing Luna. I really like the crab-suffed littleneck clams and the antipasto cart there. I always have the pan-seared Red Snapper. I've been a BIG fan of red snapper since I was a young teenager.

I hope that you'll read the detailed answers to your questions in that upcoming article.

Good Luck & Good Skill at the Tables...and congratulations with the gourmet comp.


Post Date: 11/11/2001 10:54:43 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Stu
Slogan: Professional want-to-be

To Mad P.

Thanks for the reply.

Thanks for the 3 efforts at posting long answers. I really, really, really, enjoy your long answers. I receive 5 "NoRepy@eMessage Forum Response" messages indicating that you and others were trying to post messages, but no response was posted because of the board being down. Even Irishsetter stated that you were trying to post a response.

At Lunas I had Red snapper...its surprising tha you mentioned it. I was surprised there were bones in the fish, I thought it was some type of fillet. I can't even remember the names of the food the waiter was calling off. That was truly and experience.

The waiter, if he is called a waiter, put the cheese and pepper on my ceasar salad for me. The pepper grinder was about 12" long and 4" wide and he turn a crank and pepper came out. I am sure that a retaurant like that is a nice way to impress a lady.

I had to ask the guy how much was I supposed to tip. The total was $51 of which I had a $50 comp and I tipped $15 on my credit card. Was that appropriate or is more customary?

I eagerly await the cyber space article.

Great ansers to the questions. I will begin to practice them immidiately.

1. Do you walk after 3 losses per table, or 3 losses per day?

I do remember you saying that you had a $500 stop loss. I would have done much better is I had applied so type of "quit for the day rule".

2. Though you talked about the table sweet spots, that you previously tracked on your computer, I always thought your landing spot was 3" off the back wall. It's good to hear the expanded information.

It would seem that a 20" roll to the back wall, would encourage the dice to come off of their axis more that 3-5" roll?

What specific factors determine when you do a 20" role? And the same question for a 0" role? If the answer to this question is long, please add it to the article, but even a short answer will send me in the right direction for now.

To Irish setter:

Much appreciation for getting the message board back up. When do you think the cyber space article will post?

To Heavy: Thanks for the response.


Post Date: 11/12/2001 1:03:15 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Stu
Slogan: Professional want-to-be

To Mad P.

The following question is in regards to your normal grip, not the Long Ranger grip.........and probably from the position closest to the stick.

If this is a table where you plan to throw the dice at 0" to 3" from the wall (that means you aiming for the rubber base or very close to it with little or no forward roll):

How do you get the "dead cat bounce" or a "dead cat roll" at that landing spot, without the throwing height coming above the rail (since you mentioned in a previous BB post that the dice NEVER come above the rail)?

...And without the dice forcefully bouncing off the rubber bottom with a roll back of 10-15 plus tumbles (since ideally you want the dice to stop at the wall or roll back no more than 2 or 3 tumbles, hopefully on axis)?

Thanks and anxiously waiting for a response.

To Irsish setter:

When can we expect the article of the guy who went pro in 3 months? Please post that article and the one requested in the above BB posting as soon as feasible.

Thanks.....still trying to master the throwing mechanics.


Post Date: 11/12/2001 8:19:41 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Mad Professor

Hi Stu,

The dead-cat bounce is achieved through the proper use of trajectory and the smallest amount of forward energy. It takes a very light touch when throwing the dice.

The "90 Days to Freedom" article on turning pro in three months is coming your way in the near future.


Post Date: 11/13/2001 9:09:57 AM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Stu
Slogan: Professional want-to-be

To Mad P.

I eagearly await the "90 Days to Freedom" article.


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