Dice Coach & Instructors / Newsletter / Contact / Home




Dice Setter


Dice Setter



 Your Instructors








Dice Setting


Basic Rules




Dice Setter  Archives




Mad Professor







Craps Strategies




Featured Article


Craps Table Plans


Private Lessons


Casino Dice Survey

  Dice Discussions  

Craps Book




Best and Worst




Contributing Authors


Message Board











Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.

Topic: Parr Heat 

Post Date: 10/24/2001 11:16:34 AM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Billy

Well that might be why I shhot better in the morning.I always have a short practice session from the desk to a drawer on the bed.Being wide awake and rested always helps the morning sessions also.
I'm going to let the cat out of the bag....All of you would love having the Doc as your personal physician,not only can SHE shoot the hell out of the dice she is also a very lovely gal,thats a combo that can't be beat,sixes and eights with a lovely smile.
In the next few days I'll post a report but a word of caution to any of you going to Vegas in the nearterm....Be CAREFUL!!!!! The heat is at the highest level that I have ever seen.All of the houses are sweating the money big time.All of the countermeasures that I have heard about and many more were put into action,sometimes as soon as anyone would just set the dice on their first throw.
Be aware and careful,I wasn't and paid the price with 30% of my bankroll.I found myself being very agitated in some sessions which led to making bad decisions.It wasnt until I had been there for a few days that I realized that My mind wasn't where it should be.It cost me.Please learn from my mistake.
Hey Doc looking forward to shooting with you again in the near future.

Post Date: 10/24/2001 12:00:31 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Mad Professor

Hi Billy,

I'm trying to figure out WHY you are getting so much heat from the box or stickmen.

The casinos are pretty much returning to normal, with just Tuesdays and Wednesdays being about 15% slower than before.

The casino that normally sweat the money, and there are a few of them, don't seem to be picking on just dice-setters. They hate ALL winners EQUALLY!

I play in Las Vegas EVERYDAY, and I haven't run into any of this. I just left the Horseshoe this morning, after a total of three hours at just about every table in there. A VERY profitable set of sessions and no heat at all. Same goes for nearly every other house Downtown and on the Strip over the last month.

Is there some ritual or routine that may be sending the "heat-seeking missiles" your way?

Do you ever discuss dice-setting while you are at the tables with your other dice-setting friends? Do you tip "the posse"?

Is there any reason that they may have "tagged" you on their computer systems? Most casinos that are in the same "corporate family" share player files. Even unrelated casinos share "alerts" with other nearby casinos if they think that a player isn't "on the square".

We would all benefit from your further thoughts on this.

Thanks Billy, we're looking forward to your full Trip Report.

Good Luck & Good Skill at the Tables.


Post Date: 10/24/2001 12:22:58 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: irishsetter
Home Page: ~woof~

How quickly things change. A week or so after the September 11 incident, I was told that casinos that are notorious for giving holy hell to precision shooters were not applying heat at all. (like 4 q's) They just wanted players at the tables. Now that things are back to an ALMOST normal state, the joints that have sweat the money in the past are sweating even more than usual. Billy's report of unusually high heat is the 2nd I've heard in the last few days....ESPECIALLY downtown.

Post Date: 10/24/2001 12:55:57 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Billy

I have given this some thought, while in Vegas and also yesterday and today at home. I don't think that I was doing anything differently this trip.
I always put the crew up, as soon as I get the dice and usually before.
While I was there these are the things that I experienced...I was bumped by the stickman while shooting, I had the stick wave the stick in front of my face while shooting, the stick put the stick 10 inches out onto the felt so it was in line with my target, I saw the pit switch the base dealer and the stick in the middle of a hand so that the stick could give the shooter heat( the young girl on stick wasn't able to) and switch them back after the shoot was over, I saw the stickman put the stick across the shooters arm as he was in the process of delivering the dice to stop him so that a small wager put on the felt late could be moved to the place box instead of just verbally booking the bet, also many times the game was stopped for a count (I see this at the casinos here but never in Vegas)I also had a stickman pull the tap the shooter on the shoulder with the stick pulled on me twice. While in Vegas I have never seen these types of things in the amount that I witnessed them this week. Yes I was running with other setters this time and maybe this had an effect, but the others were good players that tipped and were respectful of the game. I'm at a loss to explain it. Perhaps my brain dead state contributed to my paranoia. I know that I didn't get the rest that I usually do and believe me this had a negative effect on not only my shooting but also my decision making.
I had more fun on this trip but I paid dearly for that. Never again will I continue to play when I suspect the crew of any negative actions, or play when I have not had at least eight hours of sleep. The sleep thing was a big factor this trip,my lovely bride usually keeps me in line with respect to my rest and proper food intake, but alas she was elsewhere this trip, so was my self control I guess.
Hey Al...your voice message from Saturday night came to my phone finally ,,,last night only three days late, but I'm glad we found each other anyway because I would have hated to have missed that great shoot at the alladin (yea Heavy it was table #10).I played the last half of the Highlanders shoot and counted the part I played at 36 rolls. Nice job!!!!Would have loved to have been on the first part with all of those tens. I'll post something about the guy at Ballys later (the best and oddest shoot I have ever witnessed...all from the sidelines watching a full table go on a massive tilt for an hour).
So to sum it up MP.. I've got no real clue why I saw so many wierd things, the only place where I didn't see something was the Rio where I always stay and am somewhat known to be a George. But my play at the Rio was curtailed because of the layoffs (fewer tables open) so I usually only played there in the early mornings.

Post Date: 10/24/2001 2:47:48 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: BlackCloud
Slogan: UgHHH!

UGHH! Billy brave name the casinos where
you got crap crap! UGHH!

Post Date: 10/24/2001 3:43:42 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Billy

Well my mind is still cloudy(catching up on sleep) but here are some...HORSESHOE every session,Alladin,golden Nugget,Vegas Club,Treasure Island,Paris(stickman bumped me),these I remember quite well.I know there were others.Oh yea some of us went to the Golden Gate to shoot on the Nimitz or Enterprise and I couldnt believe the size of those land yachts and the box was on me every throw.I was standing strait out just to see if I could see the back wall( I could see the wall but because of the curvature of the earth couldn't see the top of the dice) and was actually having a good shoot,I had made a pass and repeated several #s.Every time I got the dice he would remind me to hit the back wall,and was trying to disrupt me on every toss.

Post Date: 10/24/2001 3:57:50 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: irishsetter
Home Page: ~woof~

I did have an additional thought. I believe there was a grouP of orgAnized Rhythm Rollers in vegas last weekend if I'm not mistaken.... wonder whether that has anything to do with it,

Post Date: 10/24/2001 4:39:23 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Mad Professor

I play at each of the casinos that Billy named, at least 4 or 5 times each week.

In fact, when I am staying Downtown, I play at the 'Shoe, Golden Nugget, LV Club, Four Queens, and Freemont several times each DAY. However, I DO NOT play at the Golden Gate very often.

ALL of the Downtown casinos and ALL of the Park Place casinos (Caesars, Flamingo, Bally's, LV Hilton, Paris, etc.)specifically target and hassle PARR graduates if and when they descend on their property en masse. I know that Jerry Patterson had most of his graduates stop wearing their Parr ID pins during their last training session.

I know I've said this before, but perhaps it bears repeating. The casinos have wonderfully tasty pots of sweet money. If ONE bee comes around for a small taste, there is usually no problem. But if a "buzzing" SWARM comes through the doors, well they get out their bug-repellant and start spraying indiscriminately.

If they know that a certain group is in town, then word will go out on the intra-casino security system. It's all hooked up through Central Credit (jointly owned by the casinos) and operated by Griffin Security.

Good Luck & Good Skill at the Tables.


Post Date: 10/24/2001 4:54:10 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Billy

yes there was a parrticularly large group of setters in town,and I met and shot with most of them over the five days that I was there.This may have contributed to the heat.I was never in on any large wins,however I was told of some legendary shoots.
I'm sure the word was out.I heard boxmen say "hey you must have gone to the same school as that guy"or "did he teach you how to shoot?"
This verywell could have contributed to the heat.I never saw anything directly but got the general idea.
The ones I played with were very nice and fun to be around.But the size of the group was very large,and with that many setters in one zone,even Vegas,there were many times that empty tables were taken over by the group.

Post Date: 10/24/2001 5:08:39 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: DiceDoctor
Slogan: Cash Is King

Billy - whats the name of the casino next to the Rio - Gold something? - we got a bit of heat one morning. Nothing really bad. They did change the boxman to a boxwoman who proceeded to explain that she did NOT (yes, I said NOT) care if we set the dice. She just wanted both die to hit the far wall. She became very insistent on that one point. But those are the rules: Gotta hit the wall.
BTW, Heavy - thanks for the dice permutations on this site. I just had an epiphany and reached a new level of understanding dice setting. Can't really explain it. AND, like Billy, I found your favorite table at the Aladdin. Was in on some good shoots there.
I am humbled by your kind words Billy. You are a scholar and a gentleman. I am heading back to Vegas for my 42 birthday in December. Be great if we could hook up there again. Please, please, please, bring the wife so she can keep you on schedule!;-)
Roadrunner, sorry I couldn't stay and shoot with you longer. Maybe one day in one of those Indian Casinos.

Post Date: 10/24/2001 5:26:57 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Billy

Its the Goldcoast I believe and I never went west only north to downtown or east to the strip.
My bride will be with me next time,this solo venture wore this old dog out.And when she is referred to as"the wife"I recieve more heat than any boxman ever.She is my lovely bride.
I cant believe that you are as old as you are admitting to.I would have guessed well under forty.So why would you admit to 41?
As to heat, I didn't experience any while playing with you and Dennis.Perhaps his larger bankroll kept them quiet.
Heavy C-10 was good but C-2 was better to me.I'll report on it later.

Post Date: 10/24/2001 5:53:37 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Anonymous

Yeah, we were there and did leave a few tracks. These guys and gals are tough to control when so many are in town on the same weekend. They love to hang out together at the same table. I'm open to suggestions. We've all got a stake on "keeping the bank open."

Long Arm (aka Jerry Patterson)

Post Date: 10/24/2001 7:09:28 PM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: heavy
Slogan: Dice are out ... all the way out.

Whew! I feel like I missed the party! But I'm sure glad old C-10 at the Aladdin worked out for you guys.

A couple of different ways the house sweats the shooter that I've experienced through the years...

1. Changing the stick. They'll do it every time on a hot roll - calling a dealer back early from break.

2. Stick short-sticking the dice. This is an old trick, an attempt to get you to change your physical position at the table in order to pick up the dice. Don't fall for it. Tell the stick you want the dice all the way down. My favorite line - "if you expect me to get them all the way to the back wall, I expect you to get them all the way back to the shooter."

3. The stick "lean in" - which Billy mentioned. Instead of holding the stick next to the rail the stick plants the base of it out just below the prop box, then leans forward so you have to throw around him.

4. Intentional mis-paying of bets. This is an attempt to get you out of your shooting mode by getting you upset over a short pay off.

5. Chip refill - right. Enough said.

About the stick tapping you on the shoulder with the stick - I've had a dealer hit me with the stick twice in the past - almost in the eye - supposedly an accident. Both times I was the shooter - both times the same stick. I wonder . . .

I do not let these situations go un-challenged. If I have a problem with the dealer I'll speak to the dealer about it first. No action - I'll talk to the box. Still no action - I'll call the floor walker over. Still no action - Ask for the pit. Still no action - pick up one of those customer comment cards, the name of the casino manager and the mailing address for that special letter I'm going to write. Still no action - I suppose the next step is the gaming commission. Never had to take it that far, though.

Long Arm - ever think about running a school in the Memphis/Tunica area? I can think of a couple of decent stand-up trainer types (c'est moi) who might be interested in such a deal. Inquiring minds . . .

Post Date: 10/25/2001 5:44:11 AM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: Highlander
Slogan: There can be only ONE!


Glad you FINALLY got my voice message! I guess they sent it overseas and back, huh? I'd talk to your cell phone company about that.
It was a pleasure meeting you too. And don't wait until after my fourth consecutive pass before jumping in! forum I've never noticed any heat at all from the tables but then I set and throw pretty quickly.

It was a pleasure meeting you too and I hope to see you shoot sometime. As Billy said, the DD is a truly attractive babe(!) and good company!


Post Date: 10/25/2001 7:50:38 AM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: DiceDoctor
Slogan: Cash Is King

You fellas are too kind. (blushing shyly) But I have to admit that it is great fun to be the only gal around such nice guys. You guys have probably heard the complaints from girls: "All the good guys are married or gay". My experiences have been 99% positive. Only a few cads out there and I suspect that you guys don't like them either! One mean old SOB actually shoved me at a table at the Lady Luck. He was taking a beating to his bank roll and wouldn't bet on a girl. Butthead sat there, yes, sat his fatt butt on a chair and watched me roll 23 times. But, I'm a girl so no bets. Like the dice have any feelings about my gender. Get this on the golf course too: "Excuse miss, the ladies tees are up there" As I smoke a 225 yd drive down the center past his 150 yd ball, I smile as I return to my bag ( I walk!) and say: "Not bad for a girl, eh?!"
Someone posted here a while back that he doesn't like gals at the table. I guess his girlfriends presence throws him off. To me, that is because HE is not focused and can't perform (I only mean dice here) in front of his lady. But the poor gal got the rap.

Post Date: 10/25/2001 9:22:17 AM (Pacific USA) P4K
Author: heavy
Slogan: Girly girls are for wimps!

God, I love a woman that can take charge and get it done . . .

Click Here to Go Back to the Message Board Archive Table of Contents


Dice Coach & InstructorsNewsletter / Contact / Home

Copyright 2001 - 2017, All Rights Reserved, DiceSetters.com, No Reproduction Allowed Without Prior Written Approval.

Online Since February 2001

Designed by www.MrPositive.com