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Doesn't Practice Pay Off In The Long Run

Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.


We all have read the multiple suggestions, (mine included), as to the different practice table construction methods, (single felts, double felts, extended walls, no walls, short table, long table, etc - etc.), to obtain a serviciable practice table.

My question is as follows:

Isn't it the practice itself that we all need????

With sufficient practice and dedication to learning this craft, (and I do believe that this is a craft that must be learned over a sigificiant amount of time - nothing of value comes easy nor immediately), shouldn't the accomplished precision dice technician be capable of adapting to almost any table surface within a short period of time???

After all, it is the physical training and muscle memory of the mechanics of the grip, stance, and throw, that physically place the dice onto the table surface, where the ultimate decision is immediately discovered.

If we devote sufficient training time to the physical properties of getting the die to their final resting place, add in the pre-throw set, (either axis or face), the table constraints (should) be able to be overcome.

Just a few thoughts …



Most definantly YES !! At least is my personal opinion, as I either practice 2 hours plus per day, or play on a real table for at least that amount of time.. Many times in just practice mode, not trying to win anything just playing the do/don't, and a few hardways to pay the table crew for their help..

Plus by doing this, I many times keep them working, as if the table sits empty to long where I play they shut it down.. And I also believe that you can overcome most all table differences, if you have enough time with the dice in hand.. Not getting them back quickly enough though sometimes will make it much harder to accomplish.. To me its kind of like lets say shooting free throws in basketball.. The more you practice shooting them, the better and more automatic it becomes to make them, same goes I believe for shooting dice as well..


I just wish my practice rig had an automatic dice return function. Even with ten pairs of dice it's a pain walking down there and gathering them all up. Guess I should invest in a stick...


Even with ten pairs of dice it's a pain walking down there and gathering them all up.  I use an old golf club. You can get one cheap at a flea market
or second hand store.

Long Arm

The key to practice is knowing how to practice to develop the correct form that delivers an advantage, and then to develop and "groove in" the muscle memory that can replicate that throw time and again under casino conditions.

For learning on your own, you need to know when you are "in form" and have an advantage and when your throw is not delivering an advantage on this hand or in this session.

Your grip and your throw are "delicate" and it's easy for one or the other to slip just a little bit and then you're just a "chicken feeder" like all the rest of the shooters.

Try having a partner watch you throw a few times at your home practice and in the casino. With a sharp eye, he (or she) may be able to discern when you are "on" and when you are not.


MY OPINION – (and my opinion only), is that with sufficient muscle memory and dedication – ie (read PRACTICE – PRACTICE – PRACTICE) – one (may) be able to find an acceptable “sweet spot” and resulting decision numbers for your dice throws. As we all are aware of, the end result will always be, (somewhat – to totally), random, however, with practice and patience, as well as sound bank roll decisions, we can hope for a positive result.



You brought up a great topic! So how much practice IS enough? How long does it take to become proficient? If you're waiting for a definitive answer, I'm going to disappoint you. Some people will have the time and the inclination to dive in and practice 3 hours a day and their skills WILL develop faster. If you can't devote that much time, then of course your skill will develop slower. BUT, here's what generally happens,

someone hears about dice setting

learns a little

practices a little

has a little success at the tables

thinks that's all there is to it

stops practicing

has some losing sessions

gives up

chalks up the few winning sessions to luck goes looking for the next get rich quick scheme.

Do you know how many really gung ho players I have seen come and go from the site?

SO, PorkChop, you are quite correct. Practice Practice Practice, and keep on practicing AND keep on learning. The rewards will be many, but don't get to hung up on the rewards, the JOURNEY is also some cool fun....

Mad Professor

I couldn't agree with your comments more!

But, how come you can capture in just a few lines what it would take me a three-part article to say???

Well said!



that is so believable. I'm new to this whole precision rolling, but I think I've gotten enough information to really start practicing. I just purchased a used practice table from a former PARR graduate, which is a pretty nice practice rig regardless of one's feelings on the legitimacy of PARR as a whole. I practiced for a couple days and got some semblance of what seemed to be consistency. So I tried a quick benchmark trial to find how much my results were varying from the expected median. During some parts of my trial it really looked like my rolls were on, but overall my roll distribution was amazingly consistant with a random pattern. Naturally, my reaction was that the subsets of the trial where it looked like I could really roll with the best of them were just lucky. So, I can definitely see how newcomers could be disillusioned by a few bad hands.

But don't worry, I realize that it is just as likely that my "lucky hands" could be those that I had consistency and that the unlucky hands just happened to have a few more off-axial rolls than the median. I think I'll repeat this sort of benchmark every week or so to track my progress and understand my consistency better before putting money behind inconsistent rolling. (of course even if I get good on my own rig, I expect some pretty inconsistent rolling when I get in the lions' den, initially.)


You got it! Just like shooting free throws or putting on the practice green. Your swing is your swing is your swing. Groove that and you can shoot from anywhere.

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