Three Finger Grip
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are archives! The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is
published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice
setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.
WHERE SHOULD MY FINGERTIPS BE ON A 3 FINGER GRIP. I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GRIP ALMOST THE
EDGE OF THE DIE AND JUST RECENTLY MOVED ONTO THE FACE OF THE DIE. SEEMS THIS WAY I GETTER
HOW DOES A PITCHER THROW A CHANGE UP ?
I AM A BULL IN A CHINA CLOSET. MY THROW IS WAY TO HARD. IF I TRY TO SLOW MY ARMSWING - NO
BACKSWING TO SPEAK OF - I THROW SHORT AND KNOW I AM GOING TO HEAR IT FROM THE BOX.
THANKS FOR THE HELP IN ADVANCE.
I don't use the 3 fingered grip, however I START with it, then release the 2 outer
fingers, leaving only my middle finger in front. You are correct, generally the deeper the
grip of the fingers and thumb, the more backspin will be produced. The key is to produce
only the amount of backspin necessary to slow the dice down, too much backspin and you'll
see the dice "hop" at impact. I personally don't like to grip just the edge as
I'm prone to lose my grip during the throwing motion. Try gripping the top 25%. As far as
a softer throw, by your statement, it seems as if you use the traditional PARR throw,
which means you're using a pendulum throw. I throw from the table top to avoid just this
issue though I do know a couple of very good shooters who use the pendulum. Too put less
energy on the dice with your type of throw, I'd recommend lowering your release point and
limiting your backswing. If you throw the dice at the 35 to 45 degree angle but your
release point is 2 feet off the deck, you're throwing the dice too high. Just my $0.02.
Maybe those of you who use the pendulum throw can chime in...
BTW, glad to see that you've joined us here. There are a bunch of guys and gals who have
been banished from or voluntarily left the dice board here. heh heh.
I have to agree with a very common statement that I heard
time and time again and that is that the 3-fingered front grip can be very hard to
develop. Although I may occasionally use the 3-finger grip I'm more apt to use a 4-finger
grip (index and pinky on the outer front edges) , stabilizing the dice and allowing me to
grip the dice on the very front top edge. Personally I use something more akin to the
two-finger front grip with the index and pinky set behind the dice. I have tried at least
once every available grip I could come up with. When experimenting with grips I will shoot
the dice with my fingers set all the way to the felt to start with. Then adjust my thumb
and fingers upward along the dice as I shoot to see if the improves the throw.
As for the question on where your fingers are usually recommended to be when using the
3-fingered front grip for the most control ( remember to consider what is most comfortable
for you) is that your front fingers are over the very top front edge of the dice just
enough to pick up the dice off the table. Adjust your three front fingers while the dice
are on the felt to set them on the edge and wiggle them to get the right feel for the
dice. The thumb is usually half the way down the back of the dice hooked and or flat, but
working like a fulcrum. This fulcrum like ability should allow you to control the back
spin. You may want more on some tables and less on others, and this can give you this sort
of ability. Backspin can of course be caused by wrist flick, but the finer details of the
thumb and fingers gripping the dice can give you a more exacting control. Also holding the
upper front edges of the dice force a softer throw. Of course putting this all together
can be a very daunting task, I to still find myself searching for the perfect grip. Shoot
your chosen grip on the dice from every possible finger position in order to get a hands
on feel to your throw.
SO MUCH GOOD ADVICE AVAILABLE TO US ROOKIES.
PATIENCE I GUESS IS THE KEY. I THROW ABOUT 100 TOSSES A NIGHT AND HAVE NO SIGNATURE NUMBER
TO SPEAK OF. I AM REALLY JUST CONSENTRATING ON THE TOSS AND WHAT HAPPENS IN THE AIR. I
HAVE TO ADMIT AFTER SEEING GREAT SETTERS LAST NOVEMBER I HAVE BEEN MOTIVATED TO BE A
BETTER SETTER. CAN'T SAY I WOULD BET ON ME YET, BUT I WILL PRACTICE ALL DAY WITH YOUR
SUGGESTIONS AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS. TOMORROW I LEAVE FOR AN 8 DAY GAMBLING TRIP AND WILL
REPORT WHEN I RETURN. I EXPECT I SHOULD BE ABLE TO PAY FOR THE CRUISE OVER THE 8 DAYS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? UNTIL NEXT WEEK GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL
The Man In Black
Welcome to the board, SILVER.
When I first began precision shooting, I used the 3-finger front grip, too. Although I was
contempt on how the dice reacted off the wall, I was not satisfied in the end because I
could not get the dice to fly parallel in the air.
I just recently have developed a new grip; one that I have not seen mentioned on here. I
have yet to name it, but I like it. The way I hold the dice and throw them, I can make the
dice fly with absolutely no spin. It is like the dice fly of the table flat and stay in
that same form until they arc over and land on the table. The result is minimal bounce.
This has solved two of my problems - too much energy (like you) and dice rolling
excessively and the dice not staying on axis in flight. Although this is still a new grip,
the results are promising. Maybe I'll buy a digital camera one of these days and send
y'all a photo.
Hope the cruise went well.
Since I read Sharpshooters book, I have experimented more with the 3 finger grip. I really
like it from SL1,2. They are not always side by side in the air, but they rotate nice
& I get a high percentage on axis.
I grip the front 3 fingers a ¼ to 1/3 down from the top & the thumb about ½ way down
(thumb always lower than fingers). At SL1,2 I belly up to the table, grip the dice, draw
my fingers back toward my palm, rotate my wrist so the dice are square with the back wall,
my knuckles are on the felt straight in front of me, swing my arm toward the back wall and
release the dice so they go no higher than the rail and end with my fingers and thumb
touching together. On a relatively soft table like Ballys, Sands or Trump ( as
opposed to the every hard Caesars or Resorts) and aiming for close to the wall, the dice
almost die on landing.
Irish, your grip seems to be like mine how about your thumb
is it parallel to your middle finger or lower and how much backspin do you impart.
I was in the same boat you're in! I started with the three finger front, dice off the
table. Then three finger front, pendulum. Now I'm a die hard two finger, off the table
Why two fingers? With the fewer points of contact on the dice, I strongly feel there will
be LESS that can go wrong. Two less fingers on the dice mean that there will be two less
chances for the dice to "hang-up" when released!
Wouldn't it be nice if you could get your soft, short throw to land just in front of the
wall and die? It can be done. Get right in on the stick and really extend your arm when
If that doesn't work use the same shot and lower your launch angle. That should give you a
little more roll out!
The center of my thumbpad is on the rear corner of the dice.... just the top edge. That's
the default. However, if the table is long or I'm in SL2 or 3, I may have to grip the dice
deeper to get them all the way to the end. As far as backspin, again, that's a function of
distance. At SL 1, I prefer about 2 rotations but if I'm further out, I'll add a little
more backspin. If I'm straight out, I use the three fingered diagonal grip and really
crank up the backspin.
thanks irish I will introduce backspin into my throw to see
if they stay on axis better. Either right or left die seem to go off axis all the time.
I follow all of the talk about fingers but I have a
question about backspin....
I have read that some throw with no backspin at all... I believe there was a reference to
... but I do understand how the backspin can make the dice hop madly on landing.
This happened to me on my last trip. I modified my grip slightly, trying to keep the dice
together in the air. I was very successful on that point. They flew in parallel a vast
majority of the time. BUT, they would scatter quite a bit when landing. There were a few
exceptions to this. Upon thinking about it, I believe backspin was a player in that.
Some have mentioned that they use backspin to slow the dice down. I don't understand how
that happens. Is it wind resistance or something?
Also, how much backspin is too much? Can you have too little? What about 'forward-spin'?
(Although, intuitively one would think that would force the dice into the wall harder.)
The problem with no spin is that there is nothing to
stabilize the dice on axis. Backspin generates a gyroscopic force that acts on the dice to
keep them on axis. Think about shot putting a football vs. throwing a spiral.
Now you don't need a lot of backspin. If you use too much, you'll get random hop on the
landing. Also, and more importantly, too high an approach angle will cause random hop on
landing. The angle is more important than the amount of spin in this regard. Finally,
keeping the dice level at landing in important. If you land on a corner, not evenly along
the lower leading edge, that momentum of the die will pull it sideways.
As far as front spin (aka topspin), I'd love to be able to do this from a SL position. I
think I can from the end of the table, but that's too long a throw to really get control
on the landing. If anyone has a grip that will do this from the side of the table, and can
still get the dice flying perpendicular to the table, I'd love to know it.
I figured that the backspin would help stabilize the dice
on the x axis (parallel to the table, in the direction of motion) in particular. That does
I have not really addressed the angle of attack in my thinking yet. Guess I need to reread
Yuri's book again... I have read many different comments on that issue. I get a feeling
that it depends quite a bit on how the table reacts (bouncy, etc.).
So, I've got them flying together, but I need to slow the backspin and adjust the angle of
attack. Basically reduce the energy in the throw.
Anything I'm missing in the equation?
I really had good luck with the "Ideal Grip" (two
fingers right where the dice come together. The last time I went I sevened out on the
third roll after the come out. Then my next roll I did it again. It always comes as 6 and
1. I gotta learn how to make the dice slow down and not jump up and hit the evil spiked
backing. I plan on ordering a practice table so I can play and practice everyday. Thanks
for making this awesome site.
THANKS FOR THE WONDERFUL ADVICE. PRACTICE, PRACTICE AND MORE PRACTICE. REPETITION, MUSCLE
MEMORY, WELL ALL THAT WILL HAVE TO WAIT. I AM GOING BACK TO THE AGE OF EXPERIMENTATION. I
NEED TO TRY YOUR SUGGESTIONS TO OVERCOME MY PROBLEM. I TRULY WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR
TAKING THE TIME TO HELP.
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