Dice Setter Precision Shooter’s Newsletter: March 2002

First, allow me to apologize for the tardiness of this month’s newsletter.  I’ve been a bit overwhelmed, first in preparation for the March 23rd event, then trying to recuperate from it.  More on the dicesetter.com /Sharpshooter weekend later in the newsletter.   In other news, I seem to have lost my web site re-designer, so the re-launch of the site has been delayed.  I believe I’ve found someone else to do it so hopefully by the summer, you’ll have a new site to navigate.  In the meantime, I’ll continue to maintain and update the site as often as possible.

I’ll be rolling out a new contributor in April, so keep an eye out for that.  It’s a name you’ll recognize and he has a unique perspective I think you’ll enjoy.

Sharpshooter – Dicesetter.com Weekend In Las Vegas!
A Retrospective

“The Weekend.”  I’m not sure it could have been any more of a success.  The shooters were there to learn.   The PARR staff was ready to teach.  But first, it was the meet and greet.   It was an honor and a privilege to meet so many of you who I’d only previously known as a moniker or email address.  Prior to leaving I told a friend of mine some of the nicknames of those attending, Heavy, LongArm, Billy Parlay, Dominator, Engineer…. He said that it sounded more like a mob gathering than a dice class.  Anyway, one of the biggest surprises was that yoscooter could pass as my twin brother.   Introductions all around, including the PARR team coordinators who in addition to be great shooters, were all around good guys too.  Finally Sharpshooter is introduced.   It’s quite clear from the start that he is all business.  His wealth of knowledge on the subject of precision shooting is apparent in the way he conducts himself in the front of the room.  Class dismissed until 8:30 am Saturday morning.

If you were hoping that I’d be giving away all the PARR secrets, I’m sorry to say it’s not going to happen.  I can say that over the course of the eight hours of classroom lecture, and the dealer school instruction, the five PARR linchpins were covered in depth.  Sharpshooter demonstrated his throw, which, by the way is a thing of beauty, and unbelievably consistent.  There were discussions on betting strategy, differences in philosophy on throwing angle and much more.  Though Sharpshooter “led” the discussion, I was very impressed with the questions raised and the comments made by those who attended.  Sharpshooter was impressed too. 

“…they were one of the most serious, hard-working and attentive groups I have taught…”

“Some of these guys might make good ‘professional team play’ material…….”

Sharpshooter

Heavy was the guest speaker on Saturday.   His HOW TO TURN A $13 LOSS INTO A $313 LOSS, was fabulous.  I laughed, I cried…I thanked the lord I was ahead.  Seriously though. It was a magnificent lecture on an important topic.  One of the high points of the weekend.   (I just wish he’d written it down so I could post it for everyone to enjoy.)

Even after a long day of classroom instruction, once class was dismissed many of the participants stayed and practiced their throw in the practice boxes under the watchful eye of several of the Team Coordinators.   There were definitely some dedicated shooters in attendance.

If there was one moment out of the entire weekend that I had to pick as the most important to me, the moment that blew me off my feet, it was at the Dealer School Sunday morning.  I had just finished my one-on-one session with Sharpshooter and Dominator and we were getting ready to leave for the casinos.  One of the instructors, John Vance, took us aside and demonstrated a “Zone” technique to my teammates and I.  It knocked my socks off.  A simple but powerful tool to use prior to making your way to the casino floor.  I’ve already incorporated it into my practice routine.

Anyway, in a nutshell.  That was The Weekend.  I wish I’d had the opportunity to shoot with all of you, but that will have to wait for The Weekend II, A Sequel…. Here’s what some of the guys have said about the weekend on the message board:

One final comment.  One of the attendees asked me at the dealer school on Sunday if I regretted the fact that I was self taught versus having taken the PARR course earlier.  My response was that I have no regrets at all about how I came to precision shooting for two reasons.  One, I was in no hurry, and secondly, I would have never created dicesetter.com.  On the other hand, I firmly believe the PARR course to be a viable alternative and a sensible investment for craps players who are serious about learning precision shooting and would like to get up to speed more quickly.

Several of the attendees have posted trip reports on the message board.  I have posted a good number of them in the PARR Weekend area of the site..  Check them out for testimonials and trip reports from some of the guys who attended.

If you missed this opportunity, here is the upcoming schedule for the PARR course:

June 21-23 in Vegas: (HURRY! Only  6 seats available!  Newsletter recipients get first crack at these last few seats.)

August 30/31, Sept. 1 in Atlantic City (Labor Day Weekend)

September 20-22 in Vegas  (Right after the gaming Expo)

With the success of the March class, I have arranged another special offer for the above mentioned classes.   This offer is for newsletter recipients and dicesetter.com site visitors ONLY. Click here for details!

Or for more information on the PARR course, go to Jerry Patterson’s site or call 1-800-257-7130 and make sure you tell’em Irishsetter sent you!

One last note from “The Weekend”.  Sharpshooter’s book is available for pre-order!  Click the book cover to order…

(Or click here to check out the other recommended books from dicesetter.com)

A Dicey Situation

A roundtable discussion about dice with Irishsetter, Heavy, Engineer, South Shore Swamie, Billy, JustMikeF & Mad Professor Irishsetter In preparation for this month’s event, I ordered some new dice from GGS.  One stick of Red, one stick of Red Sand finished.

Last night at the practice table, here is a generalization of what occurred.

I took turns with each set of dice.  Same grip/throw. 10 total hands, 5 with each set.

Sand finish, LOooooooong Hands. (SRR 11+)
Regular finish. Shooooort Hands. (SRR 3-ish)

I had NEVER seen so much disparity between dice types before.  The dice were behaving similarly, as far as bounce/stick but the outcome was vastly different.  

Let’s talk dice….. Heavy I also prefer the sand finish.  Seems to me that they “stick” to the table better with the old ‘dead cat’ drop.  I think many casinos prefer the gloss/clear dice because it’s easier to spot a gaffed die.  You may not be aware of this – but in addition to the serial number printed on the outside of the dice, many of the clear dice have a “key” hidden inside.  Isle of Capri, in particular, uses keyed dice.  The key is generally a letter or number written on the back/inside of one of the spots on the dice.  You have to peer through the die to see it.  The most common placement for the key is behind the middle pip on the three-spot.  Flip a clear die over with the four side up and look through it – you may find a key there.  Anyway, this is another tool casinos use to make sure dice have not been switched out by players.  

There are also different edges available on casino dice.  You can get the razor edges or feathered edges.  I have not run across the feathered edges anywhere – so I cannot speak to how they interact with the felt.  

Then you get into the differences in the pips, themselves.  Most common is the flush pip.  The dice are drilled slightly and then the hole is filled with paint of the same weight/specific gravity of the dice.  The other two types you are likely to run across are the birds-eye and fish-eye spots.  For what its worth – one of the worst sessions I ever had was at an Indian casino using very old and worn birds-eye dice.  Absolutely nothing worked.  

Now, of course, I don’t know if it had anything to do with the dice – or the fact that I was tired and couldn’t seem to get it together.  But since I had such an unfortunate experience I have mentally programmed myself to avoid these babies in the future.   
 
The mind is a powerful thing – and will find a link even if there is none. Engineer Now I would not pay that much attention to the die myself. Not a lot you can do about it. I’m sort of stuck between two casinos who both use die’s that I swear are some kind of metric measurement. My practice die are 3/4 inch just a bit smaller than the ones I play with in the casinos.
 
I did notice one night a boxman take out a large fresh batch of die and use a ballpoint pen to mark each one by firmly pressing the ballpoint tip between the two rows of threes on the six side of the dice marking each one with a small indentation.
 
Irishsetter After 3 more nights of practice, I’ve found that just the slightest change with regular glossy dice has had a huge effect.  By swapping up table and down table faces, my results have been quite similar for both sets of dice.  Of course, this could all be in my head…. Heavy Engineer –  
 
The dice actually come in three different sizes.  The 3/4″ side is preferred by setters because they are easier to grip and control.  Smaller dice are not only more difficult to control – I think they interact differently with the back wall as well.   
 
There is a guy who collects casino dice who has a lot of info on dice manufacture, etc on his web site.  It is www.diceman.net South Shore Swamie Heavy
Is there web site that you don’t know of that has something to do with dice,gambling,Vegas, craps etc ?? It truly amazes me how you rattle off all these different web sites,I’m assuming off the top of your head..

One question thou: About 6 months ago you posted about dice and you explained what the pin prick (in usually the 4 side) meant, does that mean these dice are retired?? I’m figuring. I can’t remember Heavy Usually the pin-pricked dice are found in a bin with a sign that says “authentic” casino dice.  Authentic casino dice are not usually dice that have seen casino play.  They are dice that did not get through quality control at the dice factory.  Many times these dice never even made it through the final stages of production.  Some flaw was found and they threw them in the cull bin – painted on the pips and whatever logo they happened to be stamping – then stick ’em with the pin so they’re recognizable as cancelled dice.  Look closely and on some of these dice you can see the scaling where they were being machined – but were discarded before getting the final polish.  
 
And I read all about that stuff on that same web page – diceman.net. Pretty interesting stuff.  There’s another guy – a consulting engineer some place – who has a bunch of dice fu on his web page as well.  Similar stuff.  For the most part these guys are collectors – not players.  
 
And I can come up with those web pages easily because I’ve got most of them bookmarked.  I just right click on the bookmark, cut and paste and url.   Engineer Heavy,
 
I understand what your saying, and thanks for the link. Bigger is supposedly better for grip, and these are definitely larger. Not by much mind you, maybe a thumbnail thicker but larger when next to each other.
 
Really not complaining!
 
Then again, I actually think they’re slipping in a loaded die when they check’em before handing them over. Maybe it’s just me.

Billy Before our Vegas trip I did a small experiment with some of the dice I have at home. I know a guy that works for the pro bowlers assn. and I borrowed his durometer.This device is used to test the bowling balls of the pros for hardness so that they can be certain that no one has altered the ball. Bowling balls will test at levels of between 70 and 95 on this scale to give you a reference. I tested 15 different dice of different colors and finishes.What I found was that they ranged much like the bowling balls with a low of 69 and high of 81.By the way the higher the number the harder the surface. For the most part the softer…translate to bouncier?…dice were the polished ones and the lighter the colors the softer.The darker colors and sand finishes were generally harder.As you can see the hardness varied 15% or so. I thought that there would be more disparity after tossing some dice that seemed very bouncy and others that seemed very dead.

In truth our real enemy is cubism, I was always a surrealist.

I don’t know how these numbers will affect my shooting or whether there is something else about dice that can make them bounce more or less.If someone has another idea of how to test them another way please speak up so I can do another test on the same dice. JustMikeF Billy, I wonder if the weight is more of a factor between the colors of dice rather than hardness.  The hardness might be just a result of added resin or type of resin for instance. I don’t have all the different types to have them weighed say in a physics lab or chem. lab under controlled conditions.  I noticed that when I was in Vegas 6 mo. ago every where I went the casinos were using the frosted or opaque dice, but last weekend every casino that I visited were using gloss finish red or deep red dice. I believe you may find the frosted dice the lightest, the more clear red a little heavier, the darker red heaviest.  I don’t have experience using blue and green.   Billy I have been looking for someone with a scale that is sensitive enough to weigh them,but haven’t found one.I do think you are correct in assuming that because of the resins that some will be heavier. Mad Professor The difference in weight and bounce is due to what is called the “specific gravity” of the cellulose resin that is used to make the dice.  Just as a mechanic will measure the specific gravity of antifreeze in a cars radiator to determine the strength of the mixture, so do the engineers at Paul-Son and the other dice manufacturers prior to pouring the liquid resin into the slab molds.

From that point, they use a predetermined amount of “catalyst”, which is the hardener that forms and dries the dice into a solid state.  Varying amounts of catalyst determine the hardness of the dice.  In addition, the “curing” process varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and from dye (not die) color to dye color.  As the uncut slabs of cellulose cure, they harden.  Different curing times add up to different hardness.  During this process, some manufacturers use curing ovens which vary the temperature and barometric pressure as the slabs dry.

The dye color which determines the color of the die is also a strong influence.  Ask any professional auto-painter, and they will tell you that the darker the color of the paint, the longer it takes for the paint to cure.  We are not talking about “drying time” which is determined by the amount of  “extenders”, “reducers”, “fish-eye” eliminators, etc.  that are used in the mix.  We are talking about the amount of time that the pain will remain “soft”.

Finally, the “milling” or finishing process has an effect on how the dice react to dice table felt.  You are all correct when you think that the “finish” of the dice affect the outcomes.  If you are one of the non-believers then you might want to talk to a golfer about the amount and depth of all those dimples on golf balls.  They are there for a reason, and they determine to how far a ball will travel when hit by a player.  Ever wonder why a golf ball isn’t perfectly smooth?  While we don’t have to heave the dice 200 or 300 yards, we do have to send them through the air, then have them land and stay on axis.  Dice finish DOES factor into the equation.

So what does this all mean to you and I?
 
Well, I have to go along with Heavy on this one.  The “matte”, “lapped”, or “sanded” finish dice give you a lot more control over erratic bouncing over  their “smooth” or “diamond” finish counterparts.  On the other hand, if you use a lower-trajectory throw or the dice leaves your hand a little crooked more often than you intend; then the “glass” finish ones will be a little more forgiving and they will slide quite a bit more than their dull counterparts.
 
As you can see, it’s a continual learning process and a continual adjustment to various playing conditions sort of game.

Let’s Get Geographical..

It has been suggested that I open an area on the site where shooters can post contact information about where and when they regularly play and how to get in touch for potential team play.  Great idea!  So here it is!  Team Up Here!

Dicesetter.com Wear

Wear it loud, wear it proud!  Just rolled out in March, limited edition dicesetter.com shirts.  Support your local free web site by purchasing a high quality, heavy weight cotton t-shirt or baseball jersey (and hats too!) with the dicesetter.com logo proudly displayed.  Make a statement without saying a word.  Check it out!

Nextshooter.com update

Our friends over at nextshooter.com have recently updated their site.  They’ve added a message board, a newsletter and a free area for you to look over.  Craps from the unique perspective of the dealer!   Stop by and say hello.

If you have any comments or ideas for future issues, feel free to email me at ed@irishsetter.com  And as always, I’m looking for contributors with a fresh perspective.

If you know someone who would be interested in receiving future editions of Irishsetter’s Precision Shooter Newsletter, tell them to send a blank

message to irishsetter@aweber.com.

Good Luck!

Irishsetter
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