The Following responses are from Dice Setter Newsletter subscribers replying to a question about if they feel comfortable with the fairness of casino dice. The answers selected below did not exactly pertain to our question below, but we felt that since the effort was made, we would still publish their comments. They have been selected from our February Survey. Dice Setter Wants to Know…
“Have you played craps in a casino and felt that the dice used in the game were altered or otherwise not fair dice? Do you think casinos cheat at the dice table?”
My input is about tables, not dice. I recently played several sessions over a weekend stay at a casino in West Virginia. The craps tables were scattered throughout the casino’s floor plan. In one section, I played a table that was very ‘live’. The dice bounced pretty wildly, and I had to alter my throw to try to tame the bounciness. Next, I migrated to a different table-games area, and found a couple tables on which the dice rolled in a much more ‘true’ fashion. I was finally able to make a little money at that point, so I never returned to the other table-games section of that casino.
At times when I haven’t being doing well they let the dice go while at other times when I seem to have something going they bring the dice in to change and say that the need to rotate the dice. When the dice goes off the table and I’m doing well they say the need to change the dice because it went off the table. They seem to hold up the game on good rolls to check the dice but when its all good in their favor they let game go on.
Probably not the dice but the tables. Also, they wanted our arms not to pass the midpoint of the tables.
With in the past 6 to 9 months I have found that shooting them bones has been more of a challenge to be a consistent shooter as in years past. I don’t think it is so much as the casino’s are altering the dice, but more so the Craps table construction has been changing subtlety. The tables have seemed to of gotten lighter in my experience when I accidently leaned on a table at Caesars Palace a little too heavily and the darn table nearly flipped over. Years past you could sort of lean on the table quite a bit with your elbows and the tables didn’t tend to move so easily as they do today. The lighter material being used in the shooting deck has added a bit more spring to the dice when they land, and I have taken notice that the diamond cushioning around the playing field is now being made from a poly-propylene based material giving a greater kick back when the dice come in contact with it.
I was playing at Harvey’s in Lake Tahoe sometime between January- March of 09. I had already gotten 4 point numbers a win for the fire bet. I was setting the three V. During this time I got a different dice because I could no longer set it. I was confused at first, felt embarrassed about the situation and trudged on, within a few tosses I seven-ed out. Later, as I reminisced on what took place, it upset me that the casino, mainly the supervisor would put this dice into play. I was not throwing the dice that good; I think I was just getting lucky. I’m not sure how long I had the dice, people high fived me, got a generous round of clapping, but I had only bought in for 100.00 and was playing the minimum, nickels. As I was winning I graduated up on the place numbers, 5,6,8 and 9. I only won approximately 250 dollars. I have lost much more than I have won, believe me I’m a long ways from being a good dice setter/player. This left me with a sour taste in my mouth and I haven’t visited Harvey’s for a while. That has been my only experience where I felt cheated. There have been numerous times where the supervisor has Low Browed me down, not really saying anything, but feeling the heat I eventually left the table. That�s my experience.
I usually play at the Showboat in AC approx every two months or so. There are two crap tables that are back to back on the mail floor that are near the cages and one table that is facing at the end.. Since approx 2006, it seems that the two tables that are back to back is like it is full of 7’s and I can not get a run on them, although one time I was setting for all sevens and had about a 15 number roll. I could not get anything going on the two. Now the end table is open approx. 10 PM on weekends and I can do a little better on it. I don’t know if it is the dice at the tables or is it the felt and what is under it. Don’t know if this helps or not? Please let me know what you come up with. Been hearing about shaved dice but I can’t feel any difference and also that the commission lets them use them.
I play at the same casino every day. I have often wondered why everyone at the table 7 outs before the third roll. I myself try to set and throw the dice the same every time. I consider myself a good dice player. I had an 18 throw roll no point the other day. I regularly throw 6 to 10 rolls each time I throw with a couple of points thrown in. I have had more than one half hour to forty five minute roll. But other times I cannot roll at all. I roll out immediately. On my practice table at home I rarely roll out. My conclusion is since they mic the new dice each time before the put them in play, the dice are mostly the same size. But weight and shape can be subtle and not noticeable. The table could also be altered ever so slightly to allow the roll to be more random. Therefore I believe there is a sweet spot on the table that if you hit it each time you can roll for ever. I have not been able to rationalize why a good table turns bad and a bad table turns good all of a sudden. I have played on all sizes of tables with bounce and no bounce and there are some tables I cannot win on no matter what I do. So I stay away from those casinos. So the answer to your question do I think the casino’s manipulate the game. Yes I do. Are they supposed too? No they are not. But there is no other reasonable conclusion.
I have not experienced the dice being taken out of the game and then changed. I also believe the casinos I go to all use 3/4 inch die. There are a lot of things they do thought: some stickman hassles you verbally as a controlled thrower. When you get a long run going sometimes the guys in suits start to get the dealers talking about nothing and laughing and slowing down the dice being returned. Another game is to pass a seven up to you, then take them back and fix it and apologies, breaks the rhythm. None of these actions ever are done when a random thrower is throwing.
I have found that the dice can almost stop with time and then roll or drop to a different number. I always thought it was an adjusted surface of the felt. I have seen the die stop in motion and drop in favor of making the most chips on the table at the time the cast of the dice is made. In fact one of the moves I make is to study how tight the surface of the green felt feels to my hand. I will place my hand flat on the surface and check the tightness or how loose the felt feels is. If its feels different and I am bumping heads and getting no where I will leave. I have wondered if there is the sudden powerful gust of air that is unnoticeable to me could make a die do the sometimes strange things in final split moment before the dice sets the number. There are a lot of my friends that think sometimes there are different results than expected, that is favorable to the table. I always change my game from positive to negative or negative to positive, and watch how it�s turning. If I still can’t change my results I will change my game and Hop Sevens (3 ways) or I will hit the other table or most of the time leave. I have often felt that sometimes things just don’t look right.
