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Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.

Hard Way Set - Revisited


Now I know why they call it the hard way set.

Tuesday night I saw an awesome display of shooting hard ways.  Of course I didn’t use to play hard ways, so I stood there with my thumb up my ass and let this fabulous opportunity pass me by.

This guy threw about 12 times and almost every throw was either a whirl # on come out or a hard way # when going for the point & almost all on axis.   With a parlayed hard 6 or 8 paying off at 99 to 1, this guy was a fantastic money maker.  If I ever run into him again, you better believe I will be parlaying hard way bets.     

I know you have said in the past that the PARR method of using the hard way set scares the hell out of you (me to).   But in the hands of an expert even a short or medium length hand can pay off handsomely.   You don’t need a monster roll to win big time.

I take back all the negative thoughts about PARR teaching the hard way set and ssr’s of 8.

big lou

I too use the hardway set after establishing a "point".

I almost always make a few bucks. The dealers love it, because I always do a "hardway parley", with a separate bet for them and eight out of ten times it pays off. Also if my point is nine or ten,I play the field with good results. It takes practice, practice, and more practice and discard what you learned earlier about craps ie- one pass line bet and three come bets. What are your signature numbers and if you can consistently hit them, then by all means play them. My signature numbers are the ten and twelve and they have been good to me.


What is the axis on the Hardway Set you are mentioning?



Both die are on the 1/6 axis, and hard ways are lined up..


Thanks Irish.  I use that set for the come-out---1...6  1..6  on the sides and 4  and 3 on the tops of the dice. I never thought of using this set after the come-out roll, although I have noticed shooters using this set at the tables after the come-out recently.


You will notice in the original post I said this guy was an expert.  I am not recommending anyone use it unless they can consistently throw the same #'s they set on the dice without any rotation, like the hard 4,6,8 & 10.  Otherwise you are better off with the v3 or x6.


Yeah Bubbles, I`m not an expert by any means. I`ll stick to using the Hardway set for the come-out and use the V-3 for numbers. However, the way I set the dice on the comeout is to have both dice with 1..6 1..6 axis and the 4 face up on the left die and the 3 face up on the right die.


I am a 3V set user most of the time. Since I hit alot of primary numbers, that is a lot of the numbers that are on the face of the dice with the set that I am using, I have been using the hardway set on the comeout roll. I hop all the hardways on the comeout roll. This has been a tremendous money maker for me recently especially if I hit it back to back. I play the hardways for a nickel each and I increase the number I hit by $5. I have hit this back to back 4 times in my last 10 sessions.

Without going thru the math that can be boring, the hardway set does offer you the most secure way of 7 avoidance. But if you have a double pitch problem most of the time it is not a good set as there are 4 ways to 7 out with a double pitch. But if your problem is not double pitch but die rotating off axis 1 turn then it is a great set.


Am I missing something here?? With the hard way set with the 1-6 1-6 on axis you will still have 4 ways to hit a seven.  But with the X6, mini V, or 3V set you only have 2 ways each to roll a seven if they stay on axis, Right??


Swamie -

If you look through your PARR manual you'll see some charts that Sharpshooter put together showing primary, secondary and thirds on pitch, double pitch, and roll - which indicated that the hardway set is the "safest" to use - despite there being four sevens on that axis.  

I think the vote is still out on this issue.  I'd rather go with the V-3's once a point is established.  On the comeout roll - though - I think the hardway set is very powerful.



the thing here with the hardway set is if you are throwing on axis most of the time the 3 V or 2 V is a better set for avoiding the 7 as well as giving you two number to place and hit, 6 and 8 with the 3 V and 4 and 10 with the two V. But if you have problems keeping dice on axis, then the hardway set is better for you. There are many great shooters that use the hardway all the time. I use it on the comeout as I like to hop the hardways and then I go to the 3 V or 2 V.

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