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Please remember!  These are archives!  The Dice Setter message board was shut down. What is published here are just a few of the threads documenting the early days of dice setting strategies and opinions written by the pioneers of dice influencing.

SRR Question


As a newcomer to the concept of controlled throwing of dice, I am impressed with the sincerity and enthusiasm of most of the posters here. With what I have learned on this Board, and some limited experience on a practice layout, I am convinced that it is a skill which is worthwhile and can be learned.

The concept of Sevens Rolled Ratio seems very reasonable, and a good measure of performance. However, the long term average length of rolls that I see reported by some (in the high teens or even in the 20’s) do not seem consistent with a theoretical maximum of eight.

Isn’t a theoretical maximum average length of roll established by the possible combinations available if both dice are perfectly controlled on the desired axis? If so, then it seems the maximum average length of roll would be determined by the set on the dice, and the minimum number seems to be 2 sevens out of sixteen possible combinations, or one out of eight.

So, am I missing some factor which explains extending the average length of roll between sevens beyond what appears to be a theoretical long term maximum of one seven per eight rolls?

I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, or even rude remarks!


If you can throw a set of dice perfectly parallel, land and hit and come to rest perfectly parallel, then you do not have 16 possibilities but rather 4 (or even better if you can bring up the face you want). No one is that good forever, but it is easy to imagine folks who throw like that more consistently than others, especially with the dead-cat bounce. Even slight errors such as a 1/4 difference in die turnings will still keep you away from the two sevens if you pay attention to the proper face match- ups and not just the axle match-ups. When you speak of the 16 possibilities within an axial set, you are actually referring to the worst-case skill that could still be called profitable dice- setting. I, unfortunately, still aspire to even that level of skill. And to train myself to throw properly, I don't use a sevens-avoidance set, but rather the all-sevens set on the 1-6, 1-6 axes so that I'll know I have excellent skill when I start rolling any one of the four sevens every roll. As an interim goal, I'd like to get my SSR with the all-sevens set up to at least the on-axis average of 1 seven every 4 rolls, or, like you said with a sevens- avoidance set, 1 seven every 8 rolls.

Mad Professor

Hi, and welcome to the Board.

Your question is a good one.

If both of the dice freely roll on their axis; then the probability of a 7 is 1-in-8.

However, if you can get the two dice to stay on axis AND have the same number of rotations or rolls; then you end up with only FOUR possible outcomes. Hmmm, not bad, eh? Oh, by the way, with the Flying 3-V set; then those number can only be 6 -&- 8, that's all!

By selecting a clear "rolling lane" and making the roll-back as minimal as possible (if any); then hands in the mid-teens to high twenties become common-place. When the 7 finally shows up, it actually comes as a completely unexpected surprise.

Good Luck -&- Good Skill at the Tables.


I'm going to echo everything the MP said EXCEPT that bit about being surprised when the seven shows. I can tell you from experience - when I'm in the zone and having those kinds of rolls - I know the moment the dice leave my fingers it's going to roll a seven. Self-fulfilling prophecy? No - it ALWAYS has something to do with a breakdown in the grip. You feel the dice leave your hand differently than they should - then "boom" - seven out.


To: 16 not 36

I agree with the MAD P...100%.

Each of my trips, I see "flashes of greatness" but I'm unable to consistently win because of a discipline break down. After 2 or 3 days away from the tables my "foolishness" is clear to me (that's why the DETAILS of the Mad P's articles are so valuable). While using the flying V-3 set, on one trip 1/2 or more of the 7-outs, were a 3 and a 4. It was great to stay on axis, even after rotating a die or two, but the losses stung financially.

Even with the proper grip and the proper toss the 7 is definitely going to come.  From the Mad P. articles, I see that you don't need monster rolls to make money.....and money mangement and discipline must be mastered, not just the mechanics.

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