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Dice Setter Precision Shooter's Newsletter

Volume I : Issue VII

December 2001:

Happy New Year!

Can it almost be 2002 already? I'm generally not one for resolutions, but I do endeavor to gather even more craps knowledge in the coming year.  Of course I feel I can still further my shooting skills, (practice, practice, practice!)  but my overall comprehension of craps needs the most work.  After my December trip to Vegas, I had an epiphany that it's the nuances of the game that can make or break a session.

I owe a great deal of gratitude to those who have contributed to the site.  Not just those who have written articles, but those who regularly post on the message boards and those who have sent me e-mail messages of support and thanks.  So, to all of you participants, a hearty THANKS!  Together, we have created a unique community of ideas and support.  And to those of you who have visited the site in the past year, I wish you a safe and prosperous 2002. 

Everything You Wanted To Know About Comps But Were Afraid To Ask

Our newest site contributor Paul, (Paul's Parables) has graciously offered his e-book; CASINO COMPS - A Collection of Comp Articles to newsletter recipients.  If you're new to the comps game, these articles are a must read!  Interested?  I highly recommend Heavy's article, You Mean It's Free? (Playing the Comps Game to Win) which also has some great insights into the world of comps.

On Charting (the tables) - A Roundtable with Billy, Heavy, Porkchop, Dice Doctor & Roadrunner


Before I learned how to set the dice and be somewhat consistent throwing numbers I was a big charter. As you all know living in Seattle and playing locally my table options are very limited. The casinos are no closer than a half an hour apart and unless you are playing at peak times there are seldom more than 2 tables to choose from. But I would chart anyway.

My game used to be place 6/8 one hit and regress. That was what I would chart for, two shooters in a row throwing one 6 or 8.I believe wholeheartedly in the validity of charting for this type of play. It has produced consistent wins for me over the years. I know a player that would chart for the absence of a particular number and is quite successful at it. He will wait 80 rolls without aces or midnight showing and then start a progression on them. He "says" that he has never lost on this play. He has however reached the table limit and had to have a partner start placing bets also. A funny story about the first time he made this play...He was so excited when he hit the bet on the 12 for 1800 that he forgot to tell the dealer to take his bet down and it rolled again so he made $3600 instead.

Now I am more interested in what position is open at the table, what kind of dice are in action, and whether the crew is setter friendly.

When I have selected a table that I believe will show promise for my shooting then I will count the number of rolls that each shooters hands are. So many times I will find tables that if you put the total of tosses each shooter has on a graph you would see very uniform curves that take the table up to a peak and then descend into a trough. I love to play tables like this because they are very easy to play. When the number of tosses is on the rise I press quickly and when it is on the decline I will go to the don't or take one hit and down. I really believe in taking note of what is happening at the table, it can assist the player in a lot of ways. If there is no pattern, wave or whatever in the number of rolls per hand then the table is choppy and this also helps me in deciding to leave especially if the dice don't come back to me quickly.

I also believe in charting shooters. This is a side chart for me, but still valid in many cases especially if the shooter sets or tosses the same way every time. It will take more time and doesn't work if the table has many transitional players, but when you play regularly with the same crowd can produce excellent results over time.
Try the number of rolls in the hand chart, there are times when you can just feel what the next hand will be like, and when you get that feeling and bet accordingly it produces dramatic wins.


I've posted before what I look for when charting - not just what's rolling at the table, but who is playing - where they are standing at the table - which side of the line they're on - how many chips they have in the rack - what the dealer's opinion of the table is - etc.

Now I'd like to suggest going one step further:

1. Track pass versus don't pass results.

2. Keep a side-count of sevens and a running count of the sevens to rolls ratio.

3. Keep a side-count of your place bet of choice - sixes and eights, or inside numbers.

4. Track individual players shooting results at the table - are they skilled dice setters or chicken feeders - do they have certain signature numbers we can take advantage or?

Now let's get the obligatory math boy curse out of the way: "The dice have no memory. It is a game of independent trials. Every roll of the dice is completely independent of any previous roll."

Yep. And they are absolutely correct. You can not predict what will roll next based on what rolled before. You can, however, recognize that you are witnessing a streak or trend - one of those dastardly deviations from standard. And this is where we make our money.

By tracking/charting table results and only putting money into action when conditions favor our play we MINIMIZE our losses and MAXIMIZE our wins. Does it work 100% of the time? Absolutely not. But it IS one of the strongest tools in the crapshooter's arsenal.


I am developing a Palm pilot checklist for table tracking / charting that, (when complete), I will be more than happy to share. The basic items that I am trying to enter will be harvested from this and other boards – any/all suggestions will be GREATLY appreciated!

Heavy – I have discovered your interesting posts throughout the Rec/Gambling/Craps section – keep up the good work!


The chart that I use is round
, has glasses on it, and used to have a mustache, but I shaved it a few years back. My brain seems to be very good at remembering what has rolled. I play a lot and during a session I am able to recall what a certain shooter did many cycles back. It just came with playing a lot and paying attention. Now if I could only remember my wife's birthday.

Dice Doctor

I use chips to track the rolls of myself and the bf. I also use chips to track for numbers. For instance, if I am tracking for inside numbers, I will set up four chips in front of me, one for each number, then I will lay the chip forward or backward depending on whether it has hit or not. Helps me to keep a better account and keeps my mind busy and in the game. Being a rather fast paced game, it takes a lot of mental concentration and focus.
Using chips to track each shooter also helps
me remember how each shooter did last time around. You don't keep the chips piling up in the rack though. I start anew with each shooter. This leaves a tactile as well as visual memory for me the next time a player shoots.


I always carry a spiral pocket memo pad and pen to the casino. I generally do NOT pull it out while I'm playing- but I will "back chart" a table with pen in hand on occasion. Especially a busy table where the faces are changing frequently. I'll watch for specific qualified shooters and track their numbers, looking for a signature pattern. For the most part, though, it's all back-brain stuff. Like Billy, I just seem to be able to keep up with a lot of this stuff.

There are commercially available charts - but you can make one up yourself easily enough. I'd probably just build something on excel that's got six boxes across by twelve boxes up and down - That'll cover 72 rolls of the dice. If the number rolled is the point then write the number down and circle it. Record subsequent numbers in the next set of boxes until he rolls his number - at which point you'd write a P in the box - or the seven - at which point you'd write a DP in the box. If a number rolls hard, place an H beside it in its box.


I have been charting with a 3x5 spiral top notebook. I count the number of rolls (no detail as to what numbers were rolled) using 4 $1 cheques, 4 $5 cheques and add $25 as needed for each shooter, the number of points made and write it down after the shooter shoots with an ID (i.e. Black Nike Hat, red NASCAR shirt etc).

On entry to a casino I write down:

Date mm-dd-yy              $ Cash on Hand
Time hh:mm:ss             $ Buy in
Table Number (Length)   # on Dice

rolls-points made Shooter ID
rolls-points made Shooter ID etc .

Time session ended
Dollars up/down
Table notes: Sweet spots, Shooter notes etc .

I am then keying this info into a spreadsheet that tracks the number of rolls (I don't track number of passes) in each hand for me and others and give averages as well as counts of hands over 10, 20, 30, numbers.

It has taken me quite a while to adhere to this discipline but it helps.

I did track numbers (each die also) for a while but that was a real pain. 7-2 was a seven that came 5-2 8-4 was a eight that came 4-4.

If you have any comments or ideas for future issues, feel free to email me at ed@dicesetter.com  And as always, I'm looking for contributors with a fresh perspective.

If you know someone who would be interested in receiving future editions of  Dice Setter Precision Shooter's Newsletter, copy and send them this link. Subscribe to Dice Setter

Good Luck!

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